"Books on the Prussians in the Waterloo Campaign?" Topic

I'm looking for books covering the Waterloo campaign, and in particular the Prussian army's role in it. While I plan to read Hofschröer, one has to remember he has an axe to grind. There is also John Hussey's more recent work on the campaign, but I know very little about it.

I liked Hofschröer.

link

I feel Hofschroer pays insufficient attention to the role in the campaign of the Emperor's Harry Styles.

Who is this Harry Styles?

You realise if you stand in front of a mirror and say "Mad Hoffy" three times, Peter Hofschroer will return to the internet….

I have used "He who shall not be named" for my Prussian army so would suggest going for it.

@ Jim Duncan

He's a relative of Adrian Chiles.

And Adrian Chiles is?

Similarly related to Farmer Giles.

I'm looking for books covering the Waterloo campaign, and in particular the Prussian army's role in it.

You could try this: link

OK, I did some 'googling'.

Harry Styles seems to be a pop star but I don't think I've seen his name in wargaming circles before.

I got 'Hofschröer' straightaway since I had read some of his books on military history.

I had to 'google' Adrian Chiles as well as he didn't ring any 'historian' bells with me. I am well read in military history terms but a so called celebrity who presents football programs is not a connection I can easily make.

If you had dropped 'Angus Konstam' or 'Iain Gale' or 'Duncan Macfarlane' into the mix I would have been with you.

I agree with Whirlwind, "On Waterloo: Clausewitz, Wellington, and the Campaign of 1815" is a very interesting read.

Try the Osprey Men At Arms. Or Peter H's other books.

You realise if you stand in front of a mirror and say "Mad Hoffy" three times, Peter Hofschroer will return to the internet….

I think the current possibilities of him returning anywhere are pretty small.

IIRC, his campaign histories left me a bit unimpressed. Lots of quotes from "men who were there" with not much analysis. Mind you, it's been several years since I read them.

From the other side of the table, Andrew Field's book "Grouchy's Waterloo" covers Ligny and Wavre and that gives the French view of those battles.

@JimDuncanUK

I think you may be victim of some rhyming slang. Styles, Chiles and Giles?

I prefer the more medical allusion to Miss Emma Royds.

All of course a hint towards Napoleon's famous indisposition.

Or perhaps you are indulging in some reverse irony, and I'm the one falling for it?

Emma Royds? You mean Sigmund Freuds surely.

Uh oh, the OP has unwittingly trod on the tail of the lion. I guess he doesnt realize that the British beat Napoleon's finest best equipped troops single handedly and saved the universe. Further, any departure from this cinder path of Wellington worship is met with "justifiable" abuse and and declarations of anti British sentiment.

link

"…Instead these [British] authors have tended to magnify out of all proportion the accomplishments of the modest numbers of British soldiers at Waterloo. The British troops are almost super-human, the Duke practically a deity. These authors created a virtual reality, a feel-good network. Anything which seemed to detract from their reputation as pillars of the temple of belief in British martial invincibility is omitted in their works. The strong bias is confusing and at times comical…"

Lol, good stuff.

@minipigs

"I should not do justice to my own feelings, or to Marshal Blücher and the Prussian army, if I did not attribute the successful result of this arduous day to the cordial and timely assistance I received from them. The operation of General Bülow upon the enemy's flank was a most decisive one; and, even if I had not found myself in a situation to make the attack which produced the final result, it would have forced the enemy to retire if his attacks should have failed, and would have prevented him from taking advantage of them if they should unfortunately have succeeded."

Taken as it is from Wellington's own dispatch, seems rather conclusive.

"I should not do justice to my own feelings, or to Marshal Blücher and the Prussian army, if I did not attribute the successful result of this arduous day to the cordial and timely assistance I received from them. The operation of General Bülow upon the enemy's flank was a most decisive one; and, even if I had not found myself in a situation to make the attack which produced the final result, it would have forced the enemy to retire if his attacks should have failed, and would have prevented him from taking advantage of them if they should unfortunately have succeeded."

Still, for me this is a question of the like as what makes the pancake: the egg or the flower ?

@ Minipigs

Please give a example of

1/ any author*
2/ any TMP poster*

who has contended "that the British beat Napoleon's finest best equipped troops single handedly and saved the universe."

Furthermore, please give examples in the literature or on TMP when "any departure from this cinder path of Wellington worship is met with "justifiable" abuse and and [sic] declarations of anti British sentiment."

Or be regarded forevermore as the site's new buffoon.

* voices in your head don't count.

Here's another juicy morsel:

"…Many authors inflate the number of French Guard btns. that attacked Wellington's positions. They want you think as if the entire Guard fell right on the handfull of Brits formed in thin line….

… Aside from some fuzzy math, they present the defeat of the Middle Guard as the achievement of British troops and so winning the entire campaign. The same people believe that Cpt. Mercer was solely responsible for keeping the Brunswickers in line. Mercer (ext.link) also gave the impression that the regiment of horse grenadiers of Old Guard had been practically annihilated while charging his battery :-) It reminds me another invention, that the French 45e Ligne was an elite formation. This was invented by English enthusiasts to enhance the value of the captured Eagle. Sergeant Ewart who captured the emblem was paraded around the country. These authors do not mention Chasse's counterattack, the defeat of Cambronne's battalion of Old Guard by German (Hannoverian) troop or the Prussians crushing the Guard in Plancenoit. These prolific authors are highly opinionated and severaly critical of anyone who came in contact with the British troops. They take 80 % off the performance score of anyone not having had the good sense to have been born English. This is the "Waterloo industry" that exists in England in its worst. Majority of the Waterloo-books were written for particular market and are likely to continue to do well in that very specific market with myths and tall tales… "

link

First, the Middle Guard was not reactivated in 1815. All of the eight grenadier and chasseur regiments were Old Guard.

The 1st Grenadiers a Cheval withdrew from the field in perfect order-see Maduit.

The Grenadiers a Cheval did the same thing-at the walk, and that was from a British eyewitness.

The two Old Guard battalions in Plancenoit broke out and retreated to the south.

Five Old Guard battalions were in the final French attack and they didn't attack as one unit, but separately, and they attacked outnumbered.

Has anyone read or have Muffling's memoir?

It might be helpful.

Muffling says that at the time Picton fell during the repulse of d'Erlon's I Corps, he was on his way to the left flank of the Allied army to help to co-ordinate the arrival of the Prussians and was on that flank when the attack of the Guard took place. He claims that he could see their move forward from la Belle Alliance, but that is all the detail he gives. He also claims it was him that persuaded Vandeleur and Vivian to leave the left wing and move to the centre. He therefore gives no detail on the attack of the guard and does not mention them in the disintegration of the French army.

@Handlebarbleep

Understanding rhyming slang is not a strong trait in my part of the country. We leave that to the Englanders down south.

We have Geordies, Maccams, Scousers and those from gods own country to act as a barrier to them.

I stand by the trend that the most victorious troops on the day spoke German.

@Oliver Schmidt

Looks like you are on to something.

link

On June 19, 1815 Wellington wrote to Bathurst on the actions of Prussian Army on Napoleon's right flank and during pursuit after battle describing them as the "most decisive."

"Blücher suggested to Wellington that they call it the Battle of La Belle Alliance, but Wellington had other plans. He raced back to his headquarters and wrote his famous dispatch, explaining just how he had won the Battle of Waterloo."

I have heard somewhere, Wellington named the battle "Waterloo", because he used to name all his battle after the place of his headquarters ?

@ Oliver Schmidt. That was customary British practice.

Further, most of his headquarters were in his rear and they were thus referred to as hindquarters.