"Young gamers like historical wargaming!" Topic

You were asked – TMP link

True or false? "Young" meaning under 30! As someone here says, "…the kids favor fantasy and SF…"

43% said "false"
40% said "true"

At least based on my grandkids, if it's got tanks they're all in

As a general rule, NOT the ones I know. Local game stores have boatloads playing 40K and such but not a single one playing historical.

Sadly, questions of fact are not resolved by voting, and the plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

I will be working with FlyXwire and the St. Louis Metro based Big Muddy Group to do what we can to bring younger folks into the hobby. On Saturday 3/7 the monthly First Saturday Gaming at Miniature Market Retail Store will see us add a host/greeter to the mix armed with some new brochures we created explaining the hobby a bit and directing anyone interested to sign up for our monthly E-Newsletter. We are also in the near future rolling out a series of intro games specifically designed to be playable by those unfamiliar with historical gaming. It's our hope that these efforts will bear fruit over the coming months and years.

"Young" people have not been taught any real sort of history in two or three decades. History is what fires the imagination. Firing of the imagination is necessary to inspire any sort of interest.

Fitzovich – PLEASE tell FlyXwire that Blutarski/Lord Byron says hello and hopes he is well. Haven't been in touch with him for AGES.

B

That's right: zero interest in history equals zero potential interest in historical gaming, and most of us were inspired to investigate real history by the deluge of historical celluloid that filled the TV screens of our youth – helped along by the commercially-universal availability of plastic kits and figures.Those conditions ceased to exist many years ago.

How many are in the hobby now because of Airfix 1/76 plastic soldiers at prices we could afford on an allowance?

Those were the "gateway drug" for many of us.

My girlfriends son (11) who I have introduced to wargaming said only last week that he prefers fantasy for the variety in appearance and type of troops (and monsters) he can be persuaded to play historical as long as there is sufficient carnage…and he wins…

I have one of each. One son is all about history and historicals, and the other likes scifi and fantasy. They will still play both.

I have 25 guys who game with me, not all at once. About 20 are from 15 to 25 yrs. old. All we play is historical Games. They are all from my church.

Interesting point about television, Henry Martini. I grew up during the centennial of the American Civil War, which resulted in lots of documentary material on TV. We also got shows on the Second World War, which was recent history back then. We're less than 20 years (!!!) out from the centennial of WWII: is that likely to spur historical gaming?

Grelber

You're lucky, Doug. Nothing but board games and "Attack Wing" in my congregation. I don't say I'd switch denominations for a regular game, but it would be a factor.

Stonemtnminis: Very good point. I have 100's of ACW, Napoleonic, WWII and other ranges back as a kid. I was lucky to find Wargames Digest and a set of ACW rules (Blue Light Manual) at a hobby shop in 1978 as a 11 or 12 year old. The rest is history…..

"Blue Light Manual" !!!!! Now there is a blast from the past.

B

I have a 6 and 3 year old son that both LOVE hearing about historical battles, playing with toy soldiers, playing with my gaming terrain, figures, etc.

I think the most important part for a lot of gamers is the COMMUNITY that is involved in gaming, not the particular rules, genre, etc. Of course there are people who love Star Wars and only started gaming because of Legion, etc.

For me it is about WHO I am playing with more than WHAT. I began D&D at age 34 not because I was super into RPG but because my buddies wanted to do a campaign and it seemed like a fun way to hang out bi-weekly, visit, etc.

I think the most important way we can attract more historical gamers is making the community welcoming and inviting.

I have a lot more thoughts on this and will post more later.

A few additional thoughts:

1. The way young gamers engage may make it hard to tell how many people are into historical gaming- via my Instagram account I see a LOT of young people who appear to be very active in painting, modelling, and playing historicals. Historical focused business accounts have thousands of followers.
2. RE Movies and media- The amount and quality of historically themed movies seems to be holding in there. Some that come to mind are Band of Brothers, Pacific, 1917, They Shall Not Grow Old, etc. Coming soon is Greyhound with Tom Hanks. I am not weighing in on every aspect of these films just to say that Hollywood continues to produce historical war films.
3. As I have written before the access to quality rules, figures, terrain, etc. is better than it has ever been. 1/72 plastics are still available for those who want a lower price entry point too.

Ok thanks for reading.

Hayes

I'll just leave this here…

link

I wouldn't go blaming teachers whether history is or isn't being taught in school. It is in many places, and if it isn't in others, that is just as much the community's fault as Education. It is also a problem with the different States' educational frameworks.

In the eighties when I was teaching history in high school, we were given frameworks outlining what students in World and U.S. History should know for the proficiency test.

I had 184 hours [actually 55 minutes] for the year to teach US history. The frameworks gave use 480 concepts, 894 specific facts, 52 study skills to teach. That is not counting short days, administrative duties, assemblies, fire drills and of course class and school-wide testing.

You can do the math. Each day we had 2 concepts, 4 facts and every third day 1 study skill on top of that. Many schools were flipping pages of the text book at lighening speed. This is even though all the research said that to learn ONE concept from introduction to using it independently required at least four hours.

We were asked to pour a quart into a pint jar. It has just gotten worse.

I confess, I ignored the frameworks other than to tell where my curriculum crossed with the state's [about 50%] and went for learning, giving a full 4 hours to concepts etc. My students did as well or better than those teachers who were on page 234 February 9th in an effort to 'cover the material' or 'expose the students to the information'. I hated those phases.

Since then, I have worked in 30 different states and their educational systems and they all suffered from this 'more information = better education syndrome. Since the 1980's, text books have gained over 1/3rd more pages. With ipads and the internet, the amount of information students are expected to master has grown expodentually.

Add to that a political and social system [I won't name names]that seems determined to forget any and all history, and you have a societal problem, not a wargame or history problem. We have a current president who didn't know the significance of Pearl Harbor…or that it was part of WWII. He had to have it explained to him while visiting the Arizona Memorial in Hawaii.

You must have noticed how the history magazines in grocery stores have slowly disappeared, replaced by gun and movie magazines. It isn't us… but on the other hand,

bemoaning the facts isn't going to change anything.

IF kids 'don't like history or historical wargames', it is because they haven't been exposed to them.

Fitzovich has described one way.

History teachers love history. Approach them, get them involved. World and US History is taught in most states from 5th grade to 11th.

*Let the teachers know when wargame events are held and invite the students… a flyer and leaving a wargame magaizne could be enough. The pictures alone are a great draw.

*Students might be able to get 'extra credit' for attending. I gave extra credit for attending re-inactments and mountain man rendezvous.

*Visit classrooms and do presentations on topics being studied. Teachers often love than kind of help to bring history alive.

*Even a short presentation of a historical battle using miniatures or pictures of them illustrating aspects of the battle can capture their imagination.

*Many kids have already played historical wargames on the computer or risk and Axis and Allies… They can be hooked by pictures like this:

That can stir the imagination. We have to do the stirring if it is going to happen.

I still remember when my 5th grade teacher taught the class about the battle of Waterloo. I was mesmerized. He was the best teacher I ever had. I feel sorry for today's kids being taught all the politically correct nonsense in undisciplined environments. Everyone gets a blue ribbon and there is no individual responsibility. It's even worse on college campuses where the faculty has be taken over by communists.

I feel sorry for today's kids being taught all the politically correct nonsense in undisciplined environments. Everyone gets a blue ribbon and there is no individual responsibility. It's even worse on college campuses where the faculty has be taken over by communists.

Uh, let's not generalize for a whole nation of education, considering how provincial education is in America. Local control, even on a college campus is the rule. And if there is a "Everyone gets a blue ribbon and there is no individual responsibility", that is on the parents and the school board. That is not a theme pushed by educators… I've worked with over 600 schools across the US, and that just isn't the case… For universities, it is more an issue of how to make money.

And luckily, communism isn't a thing any more. Not even China and Cuba are practicing communist countries. It's all morphed into other things.

I get masses of interest.

Today, at Daventry Museum, it was British Science Week (but still during the run of the Naseby exhibition, so we were there with toy soldiers, reenactors and kit for pike drills outside.

A tough act to get interest in the historical themes? not at all. Very busy throughout – and lots of comment from kids and parents alike bemoaning the fact that there isn't enough of it around.

But I guess if you judge by interest levels in a gaming shop that sells 40k, where kids go to play 40k, your perception might be different.

Phil

History teaching was virtually non-existent at the schools I attended, but its absence didn't impede my attraction to the hobby. As I said above, it was informal history education via the mass media that drew me in more than anything, as I suspect was the case for most of us.

We also have to accept that there's been a major cultural shift since we veterans took up the hobby. The days of our youth were slower-paced times, and attention spans were much longer. The idea of spending weeks or months painting an army before you could use it was taken for granted in a way today's 'now' generation would find totally incomprehensible.

I think the only way we'll see a resurgence of interest in mass battle gaming among the youth is through a combination of technological advances (such as printed, pre-coloured figures) and the sort of intense promotional effort described in tabletopwargamer's link above.

And luckily, communism isn't a thing any more. Not even China and Cuba are practicing communist countries. It's all morphed into other things.

I don't think that they were ever true communists by definition, but totalitarian regimes; and they still are for the most part.

I agree with you about school boards and parents. There are many people who should not be on school boards or parents for that matter.

the use of to much info to block any real learning is a technique being used by design. 'Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, first tragically and then as farce.'

I don't think that they were ever true communists by definitionbut totalitarian regimes; and they still are for the most part.

Then we agree. Let's use terms with some concrete meanings.

There are many people who should not be on school boards or parents for that matter.

True. Just look at the damage done to history by state textbook approval committees, particularly large states like Texas, California and NY, all chaired by parents/citizens.

That said, we can and should do better in the hobby…we respect history and enjoy delving into it.