"China Is Using Uighurs As 'Forced 'Labour' To Work" Topic

…In Factories For Foreign Brands.

"Dozens of popular companies including Apple, Nike, Adidas, Uniqlo and Skechers have suppliers linked to forced labour in China involving Muslim minorities, according to a new report from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI).

Drawing upon open-source Chinese language documentation, satellite imagery, media reporting and academic research, the report entitled Uyghurs for Sale identifies some 83 well-known consumer brands linked to factories where Muslim minorities are thought to be working in forced labour conditions across China…"

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Amicalement
Armand

I'm shocked, shocked.

In other news, when the state owns the means of production it includes all the people living under its control. In less enlightened times this was called slavery.

On one level, the use of convict labour is quite common in many countries. The US, I believe, so marshals its large prison population.

The issue here is whether the Uighurs are genuine law breakers or are they political prisoners? One assumes mostly the latter. The other issue is the work conditions they are made to work under. AFAIK there isn't much information on this, though the assumptions are it's not good.

I was, co-incidentally reading this:
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Interesting, as it also uses the tag "slavery". As always, my de fault position is to give the benefit of the doubt to the US, especially over China, but as always, it's never just black & white.

In other news, when the state owns the means of production it includes all the people living under its control. In less enlightened times this was called slavery.'

In other news people misrepresent facts to prove a political point and accidentally come off uninformed.

Let's not forget all those African and other slaves used in your glorious freedom loving USA up to 1865 were owned by private enterprises and individuals.

Slavery isn't related to ideology.

Oh and today we have something better than slavery in the third world (and increasingly making a come back in places like Australia*): poor desperate people working for next to nothing in horrid conditions.

Unlike a slave, the poor desperate person does not require an initial capital outlay by private enterprise. And given the mass of labour available today, it's much easier to work the poor desperate person to an early grave and replace him/her with another free poor desperate person.

*Modern Australia listened to the wisdom espoused by the Americans and is eagerly replacing old evil socialist systems of labour protection and worker rights (aka Communist red tape) with new more flexible systems that ensure the fruits of employees' labour remains firmly in the hand of the shareholders and business owners:

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We even reduced legal minimum conditions for the lowest paid workers.

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One day you American will be so proud when you see Australian children back in our coal mines like yours were in up to only last century. Nothing says freedom like children having the right to work in a coal mine and heavy industry for next to nothing.

Ohhhhhkaaaay…..

"In other news, when the state owns the means of production it includes all the people living under its control. In less enlightened times this was called slavery".

Welcome to the joys and benefits of a socialist/communist, government run society, where there are NO checks and balances on those in power.

"The US, I believe, so marshals its large prison population".

Actually, depending upon if those in China are paid or not, that analogy may be off base.

Granted, some prisoners are paid less than minimum wage in some states, but there are advocates to raise that to the minimum, if it isn't being done already, and I suspect our "minimum wage" is a lot higher than that paid to workers in China.

I find it a shame that prisoners are no longer required to work to help maintain our roads, pick up trash, and cut grass and other brush along the roadways. That would go a long way to helping them pay back their debt to society, and the burden they've created on both our legal and prison systems, which ultimately ends up in costs to the average, honest, hard-working taxpayers of our nation.

Instead, they get to relax in air-conditioned splendor, watch cable TV, work out, pursue hobbies, socialize, and get free room and board, all on the taxpayers' many dimes spent to house them.

Things in some cases are so attractive that people sometimes actually commit crimes and then turn themselves in, or let themselves be caught since it is better than living on the streets, or trying to make it in the tough, dog-eat-dog world of our society today.

Well, I think we can all agree, the Chinese GOVERNMENT is a dick.

A pity that mine is too.

that analogy may be off base.

The issue of pay would not be the one I'd choose to differentiate between Chinese & American prison populations.

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So apart from the 8 states which don't pay at all, the average is 14 cents per hour! Such a pittance, before deductions, really doesn't signify. And after all, pre-Civil War town living slaves in the US could earn enough money, working extra jobs, to earn their freedom. As a point of reference, the minimum wage in OZ is $19.49 USD an hour.

As for the luxurious conditions US prisoners live in….I've heard this one before. If it's so resort-like, will you be going inside any time soon for a holiday?

The revelation for me was the number of people incarcerated in the US: 2.3 million. Wow. That's an awful lots of dogs being eaten.

At any rate, I'd suggest the obvious point of difference between the two countries is that the Uighurs are *political* prisoners. That certainly makes the US look a whole lot less bad.

Well, I think we can all agree, the Chinese GOVERNMENT is a dick.

No argument from me.

A pity that mine is too.

And before anyone accuses me of being 'holier than thou':
The indigenous prison population in Australia

"In December 2017 the rate was 2,440 prisoners per 100,000 adult Aboriginal population, compared to 216 prisoners per 100,000 non-Aboriginal population."

I think you could make a very strong case about racism here in OZ as indeed in any country where a particular racial group is so massively over represented. This is something that needs to remedied.

Glup!!!…..

Amicalement
Armand

"As for the luxurious conditions US prisoners live in….I've heard this one before. If it's so resort-like, will you be going inside any time soon for a holiday?".

Such a ridiculous question, AND even another more ridiculous statement that follows.

Nope, I am very discriminating in those I hang out with, so don't like to associate with criminals.

Most people in the USA don't eat dogs, and I suspect it is illegal in most, if not ALL US states to do so.

You're minimum wage in Oz is so high, since the valuation of your currency is rather low, at least compared to the US dollar, currently.

People here go to jail for crimes committed and/or used to. Now, far leftist politicians are negating felonies and dumbing them down to misdemeanors. In many cases, misdemeanors are not prosecuted anymore, so from a "realistic" point of view, in San Francisco for example, it is open season on citizens and businesses for the criminals to steal less than $1,000 USD per crime, and not be charged with a felony. I've read that the crooks are going into shops and brazenly using calculators when they commit their thefts, in order to ensure they don't go over the limit.

Also, in Washington state, the legislature there is/has making/made willful HIV/AIDS transmission to others a misdemeanor too. It used to be punished as attempted murder, or at least a felony. Now, that will no longer be punished either, even though victims that contract it from persons spreading the disease could need up to $500,000 USD in pills in order to keep them alive during their lifetime.

Moral to the story, "don't do the crime if you can't/don't want to do the time".

ost people in the USA don't eat dogs, and I suspect it is illegal in most, if not ALL US states to do so.

Cultural relativism. Remember Hindus and Muslims are probably horrified that westerners eat beef and pork. For Hindus it was horrifying enough for them to burn down McDonalds in India!

I suspect our "minimum wage" is a lot higher than that paid to workers in China.

Even though Ochoin destroyed this, note there's a thing called purchasing power parity. 14 cents gets you far more in China than it does in the USA.

w, far leftist politicians are negating felonies and dumbing them down to misdemeanors.

Far leftists? American "far leftism" is actually centre right wing in most of the rest of the world, especially when it comes to economics.

Here in Australia all the governments eagerly reduce criminal sentences, regardless of whether they are left or right.

Reducing jail sentences decreases expenditure spent on prisons (so they can lower taxes particularly for the rich) including via privatisation (transfer of tax collected to the rich). The cost of crime is then carried by the community (and usually the poor who are generally the main victims of crime).

In a world of increasingly laissez faire capitalism, this is the norm: socialise cost of problems whilst any benefits are privatised.

And here in Australia laws, politicians and the rich are increasingly exempt from it. For example Energy Minister (centre-right) used falsified documents but the police refused to investigate on grounds he apologised. The current right wing government was busted using government money to prop up an election campaign (including spreadsheets) whilst violating government rules. Political donations are just blatant corruption and no-one wants to fix it – one guy donated $3,000 USD to the main party and his company received a $5.5 USD million government grant that his company was not allowed to even apply for the grant.

Banks have been busted involved in extreme corruption and fraud yet the government refused to ramp up regulatory laws to prevent this kind of behvaiour in the future.

There have been several buildings in Sydney that were not built to standard and are dangerous. Government cut its own regulatory bodies, cut overall regulation and allowed the industry to "self regulate" (so building companies had their own compliance services). No wonder that buildings were not build to code.

There was less of this kind of behaviour when governments ran social services instead of privatising and when government practised heavy regulation of the private sector.

As the country edges to laissez faire capitalism, the corruption is increasing and Australia is becoming ever so third world in many ways.

"As for the luxurious conditions US prisoners live in….I've heard this one before. If it's so resort-like, will you be going inside any time soon for a holiday?".

Such a ridiculous question, AND even another more ridiculous statement that follows.

My apologies. It is truly said that Americans don't comprehend irony (some, anyway).

Moral to the story, "don't do the crime if you can't/don't want to do the time".

Curiously, the Chinese have a similar motto" don't be an Uighur if you don't want to spend time in the slammer."'

….oops, there goes that irony again.

Reducing jail sentences puts the bad guys back on the streets, where they quickly re-offend again, over and over.

"In other news, when the state owns the means of production it includes all the people living under its control. In less enlightened times this was called slavery".

In the more-enlightened totalitarion constitutions, they are merely delivering on their "everyone has a right to a job" promises…

;-)

I would not want to go to prison in China or America, or most of the world. I've heard that Sweden and Germany treat their prisoners humanly. Many years ago the news show "60 Minutes" did a piece on prison. They interviewed a leading psychologist who said that we need to build more prisons and incarcerate more people. I don't know the answer, but it seems that once you go to prison you never really stop paying for your crime. And since you can't get a good job because of your record, there is an insensitive to return to a life of crime.

@ USAFpilot

I applaud your post which recognises a complex situation and displays humanity.