"DBA Basing Questions" Topic

I'm basing figures for a Chu Kingdom Warring States army and since I'm more of a painter and model building constructor (as opposed to gaming since I haven't actually gamed with miniatures in 30 years), I'm a bit confused about the DBA II/4E Other Chinese Armies list.

1 x Swordsman or clubsmen (3 BD) – If I understand this correctly, the entire sword unit consists of 3 figures on a single base? Is this correct?

What about Hasty Levies 7 HD? I understand that HD is horde but does 7 HD mean that there are 7 figures on one base?

According to my understanding, the base width will always be 60mm for larger scale figures like 28mm. I understand that the 3 BD swordsmen will have a base depth of 20-30mm.

Section 5.5 "Basing your figures" says that a warband will have a depth of 40-60mm which would seem to suggest that I should have 7 figures on a 60mm wide base that's 40-60mm in depth?

Did I understand this correctly?

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Even if I never play a DBA game, I'd like to have my figures properly based. Maybe I'll have time for gaming after I retire. You never know. (Rueful grin)

Sorry for the "OMG – I can't believe he actually asked those" questions.

Masse de Decision,

The swordmen (3Bd) are in fact three figures mounted on a base as are the levies (7Hd) with 7 figures.

Using the larger scale the base front is 60mm, but the base depth will vary with the troop type.

Base depth for swordsmen is 30mm and levy is 40-60. 40mm is standard, but 60mm is useful if figure size, shields or weapons pose a problem when fixing them to the base.

Besides, the extra room on the base can be deoorated with nice terrain.

Not everyone likes DBA, but I love it for lots of reasons…

There are some practical issues with DBA unfortunately

Firstly, the latest revision is 3.0, which has a number of rule differences and changes in army lists. Some people have refused to transition from version 2.2. So you might want to ask locally. I've only played 3.0. My friends who have played think that 3.0 has fixed some of the "gamy" aspects and plays a little faster, but you might find out what is popular locally

With respect to base sizes, the intention of 3.0 was that no rebasing of figures would be required. This is the reason for ranges in the sizes. 2.2 and previous specified 20mm depth for Pike, 3.0 allows 20mm or 30mm. I haven't yet found a case where the depth has changed outcomes in a game. I have used the larger depths.

The number in a troop type does represent the number of figures on the base. So a 5Hd unit is more dispersed than a 7Hd unit on the same sized base. If there is no number, look at the models per base in the last column. I think you may have misread the warband depths. In 3.0 at least, it is 20-30 for 4Wb and 30 for 3Wb (again I would use 30 for both)

There is an even bigger problem however. The 60mm base width worked fine with the 25mm (foot to top of the head) figures available when WGRG started up, but modern figures are often 28mm toe to eyes and considerably more chunky. It's going to be hard to fit the required number of figures on a 60mm base and I think a lot of horse models will not fit lengthwise in a 45mm depth base. I have sidestepped this problem. Although I have lead (and plastic) for a couple of 28mm DBA armies, most people here play 15mm so that is all I have completed so far.

I can see a couple of solutions to the 28mm problem

• Use N-1 figures. For 4Pk, use 3 models and so on. Skirmishers (Ps, LH) will only have a single model on the base
• Use a larger base size (80 mm?) and scale all other dimensions in the game accordingly, including the playing area. The problem here is that there is no standard, so you either find people locally that have standardized or field all the armies. Distances are always measured in base width so it's not impossible to scale everything
• Use large bases as a sabot for a smaller basing scheme or individually based figures and then scale distances accordingly. Lots of flexibility. Very large bases do not play well with undulating terrain

It really doesn't matter how many figures are on the base, so long as your opponent can easily distinguish troop types

In one of the suspicious, dust covered boxes on my shelves, there is lead from the Watchful Eye kickstarter to build two Warring states armies, using the N-1 scheme. They are lovely figures. I have absolutely no idea how I am going to fit the 4 horse chariots onto a 60mm wide base

There are a number of other sets of rules that use the same basing standards as DBA, notably ADLG, so it is certainly worth considering.

I know I've made everything look harder when you asked a simple question, but I'm afraid that's how my brain works

Just to make everything even more confusing, if you are more interested in the painting and modelling, this is hands down the best base of figures I have ever seen

It uses 28mm figures and is 120mm wide – a basing standard for the impetus rules. His other samurai stuff is great as well (samurai gallery in the keywords). He found the 120mm width awkward and was talking about cutting them all in half. I believe that appreciation of beauty prevailed and he didn't cut anything up

hetairoiwargames.blogspot.com

hetairoiwargames.blogspot.com/search/label/Samurai%20Gallery

Best of luck

John

There seems to be a bit of confusion between Wb = Warband and Hd = Hordes

One useful modification from 2nd edition to 3rd is the dividing troops into Fast land Solid. There are both Solid and Fast Warband and Horde. Previous editions already had bases with different number of figures, so Phil thought it would be useful to make this number reflect different tactical options.
WARBAND
"Solid" 4Wb 20-30 15-20 4
"Fast" 3Wb 30 20 3
HORDES
"Solid" 7Hd 40-60 30-40 7-8
"Fast" 5Hd 40-60 30-40 5-6
First column type, second is code, third base depth in mm for larger figures on 60mm wide bases, fourth is the depth for 40mm wide bases, and the last column is the number of figures on each base.

So a 15mm -18mm Germanic solid warband has 4 figures on a 40mm wide and 15mm or 20mm deep base

A 25-28 mm Ancient British fast warband has 3 figures on a 60mm wide and
30 mm deep base.

Fast Blades (3Bd) and Solid Blades (4Bd) are based like the comparable war bands.

Phil allowed for the changes depth to compensate for the larger size of today's figures.

Note that sometimes in combat, the loser will recoil a base depth. The winner might follow up a base depth. If all the foot bases are the same depth, then the winner will always stay in contact with the loser. Also, with a variety of depths, it is possible for a line of bases to become unaligned after recoils.

I prefer the smaller depths as I before 3rd edition, I had dozens of armies already so based. I also like the variability of the outcomes.

By the way, "Masse de Decision", play some games, even solo, to appreciate the creativity of Phil Barker's rule making.

Thank you all for your replies. They were most helpful. I hadn't even THOUGHT about the difference between a warband and a horde or between fast blades and solid blades.

I understand that one of the criticisms leveled against DBA is that although the rules are deceptively simple, they sometimes generate lots of questions.

In the meanwhile, it will be some time before I even have anything ready for game play. I WAS painting up a 20 mm (1/72 scale) Warring States army. I HAD been working on 28 mm. First Corp at the time I got distracted by Caesar's 1/72 scale Ch'in pieces.

I'm afraid I've gotten distracted again. I came across an old kick starter project dating back to (I think) 2015 for 28mm Warring States.

I was surfing the net when I came across these guys.

I saw them, wanted them, and found that Watchful Studio now has most of these in production. Between First Corp and Watchful Studio, I spent a lot of money and will soon have enough troops for at least 2 (and probably 3) DBA Warring States armies.

As much as I liked the Caesar's products, the quality of these 28mm is just so much more detailed.

I also found these guys on eBay (Scotia Grendel Fantasy 28mm)

Great Escape Games was also selling 3 hand painted 28mm Warring States chariots for a little over $100 USD U.S. Since I already had 3 chariots on order through First Corp, I thought why not and bought them. These are the first ready painted 28mm figurines I've ever bought.

And it was pretty much just like that and I abandoned my 1/72 scale army and resumed work on the 28 mm. First Corp miniatures that I already had.

I'm just like a raven who's attracted by the newest and shiniest glittering bauble. That's why my hobby room is filled with 6mm and 15mm Napoleonics and literally thousands of assorted U.S. Civil War, European medieval, Renaissance, Early Roman Imperial, Celts, WWII micro armor etc. miniatures.

The only completed sets I have are a 15mm. Napoleonic French infantry corp and cavalry corp all based to General de Brigade standards (1 miniature = 20 men).

If I rebased the Celts, Early Imperial Romans, Samurai, and Mongols, I'd at least have four 15 mm. DBA armies.

One of these days, I'm going to have to sort through my miniatures to start listing the ones I'll never use on ebBay.

I have THOUSANDS of figures. (sigh)

I would absolutely recommend using deeper bases for 28mm. It looks so much better. (And who plays tournaments in 28mm enyway?)

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