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"WRG 1970s Cold War Army & Equip Lists?" Topic


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408 hits since 23 Feb 2020
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Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP23 Feb 2020 9:11 p.m. PST

I'd like to know if WRG (Wargamers Research Group), TTG (Table Top Games), Bruce Rea Taylor, or others ever produced a 1970s Cold War Armies and Equipment list reference, or references, for the various European countries in NATO, and the Warsaw Pact?

If so, and anyone has a surplus copy, or no longer wants theirs, I'd love to purchase it.

I've seen a number of them for the 1980s Europe, as well as the 1950s/1960s one, but not one for the 1970s.

As an alternative, would love to know of any good resources for armies for the 1970s instead, since a number of them changed significantly, in terms of their TO&Es and equipment, during this transitional period, e.g. West Germany, USA, Soviet Union/WP, British, etc., etc..

You can PM me here, or reach me via e-mail, at the following address:

rkentjr AT hotmail (d0t) c 0 m

Fitzovich24 Feb 2020 3:16 a.m. PST

I played the 1925-50 version of WRG and I don't recall any army lists or TOEs being available back then, but it could be my bad memory. I did have a book of WWII organizations but it is long since gone when I gave away my 300 scale collection during in the 1990s.

khanscom24 Feb 2020 6:25 a.m. PST

WRG's "Armour and Infantry 1950- 1975" had a bit of organizational info for Tank, Armored Infantry, and Recce battalions, and brigade organizations. Countries included British, French, German, USSR, US, Egyptian and Israeli (although not all organizations were given for all countries). This was all quite rudimentary and additional research would be necessary if playing at the 1:1 ratio of the WRG rules.

ScoutJock24 Feb 2020 8:53 a.m. PST

B. A. Rea-Taylor and Tabletop Games published "Ultra Modern Army Lists and Organisations" in 1982 so it covers the period in question. It has the TO&Es in effect prior to the reorg that many countries went through in the 80s.

My copy is pretty well past its prime but I do see copies at convention flea markets occasionally. Plus I couldn't part with it as I still reference it.

Martin Rapier24 Feb 2020 9:28 a.m. PST

Otto von Pivkas elderly 'Modern European Armies' (which dates from the mid 1970s) occasionally crops up second hand.

It is strictly European armies though (so no US), but it does have absolutely everyone, including all the non aligned countries. TOE, OOB, uniforms, equipment etc.

As noted, anything published in the early 80s is basically the 1970s orgs. A big clue is whether BAOR is shown as using Brigades or Task Forces.

The TO&E io group also has a ton of OB stuff from the period.

Formerly 298TYR24 Feb 2020 1:04 p.m. PST

I have a number of these by Bruce Rea-Taylor, and while my collection is by no means complete, I've never seen one for the 1970's. There was one for the 1950's and 60's, but after that it was the 1980's. I have a "Ultra Modern Army Lists & Organisation Volume 2", that is dated 1985; but have some "Digests" dated prior to that – the earliest being 1983. That does suggest there is a volume 1 somewhere maybe covering the 1970's. There was a pretty good one produced in the USA published around 1981 – as said elsewhere that would be good for the late 1970's. I have the Von Pivka book, but to be honest don't think much of it.

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP24 Feb 2020 1:14 p.m. PST

Thank you all for the replies and suggestions.

I have a number of these too, including the 1950s/1960s one, and then, jumping to the 1980s. IIRC, the latter included Bradley formations, so is more 1980s for the USA than 1970s.

I've not seen the Pivka book, but given your review, it doesn't sound like that is a huge loss.

I am aware of some TO&Es for the USA, West Germany, and Soviet Union, for things like tank platoons and companies, as well as the Mech ones, since I became interested in the military and wargaming in the 1970s, but am less up to date on earlier UK Orbats, and those of others.

I'll check out the TO&E . IO group. Thought we'd lost a lot of that with the demise of Yahoo Groups, so it is good to know that is another possible resource.

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