Help support TMP


"Adiken versus Fenryll-something wrong with this picture?" Topic


12 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Moldmaking and Casting Message Board

Back to the SF Discussion Message Board

Back to the Consumer Affairs Message Board

Back to the Fantasy Discussion Message Board

Back to the Wargaming in General Message Board



Areas of Interest

General
Fantasy
Science Fiction

1,906 hits since 8 Feb 2003
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo Dances With Words Supporting Member of TMP Fezian08 Feb 2003 3:43 p.m. PST

First of all, this is just my "personal opinion"...but it deals with issues of "recasting/legalisims", and what is "right"...I DON'T know all the details, but awhile back, New Wave started selling off their "Fenryll" resin figures, because a company in Canada, Adiken, was supposed to start providing all the figures Fenryll was originally doing, only they would be done in metal, instead. Then Adiken's website "dissappeared" for awhile, New Wave was selling off their fenryll and nobody seemed to know what was going on. I managed to contact Fenryll in France, and despite not speaking french, found out they were still VERY MUCH in business and looking for US distributors...But then Adiken came back...offering figures "like/similar, etc" to Fenryll, but apparently NOT with an "agreement"??? I've seen how folks react on this board, to the MERE "hint" at "recasting" copyrighted/original work...for ANY reason...even "preservation"...and yet...could it be that it's "ok" for companies to do it, especially if theres' an "ocean" between them and any legal battles would be prohibitively expensive???? IF it's "wrong" to "recast"...EVEN for PERSONAL use..."in theory"...wouldn't that be even more TRUE for deals between companies??? Inquiring minds want to know...
pondman1955@yahoo.com

Hundvig Fezian Inactive Member08 Feb 2003 4:07 p.m. PST

I was under the impression that both Fenryll and Adiken are owned by a French company, Les Forges Fantastiques. That may be dated info, but if not then I don't see the problem.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian08 Feb 2003 4:45 p.m. PST

When Adiken first contacted me, they emphasized that the "brand" was owned by Les Forges Fantastiques. I'm not sure what the significance would be between that and outright ownership...

Nukuhiva Inactive Member08 Feb 2003 7:29 p.m. PST

If there's a problem here, it would almost have to be New Wave.......
Don't know about Adiken, but Fenryll is great,despite having a messy website. Get them from www.dragglestown.com.

Personal logo Dances With Words Supporting Member of TMP Fezian09 Feb 2003 7:47 a.m. PST

I may be just a "simple consumer", but I don't belive the problem was/is with New Wave, or other retailers/stores. Other companies "liscense" rights to copy/produce foreign products on both sides of the ocean, all the time. Usually such things are accompanied by legal agreements and some form of financial arrangements/commissions/royalties etc. IF indeed Adiken has such legal and financial agreement with Fenryll/owners of the "masters"...then there wouldn't be an issue. My impression so far, from lack of straight answers from certain parties, (other than Fenryll), has been that there ISN'T such an agreement. I'm not out to "muddy the waters"...and I'm no attorney...But, I've had no problems with distributors like New Wave or Discount Hobby, or even buying DIRECT from Fenryll in France...all my emails/inquiries to Adiken have basically gone unanswered, etc. Legal manuverings aside...There are some simple enough questions. Does Adiken have the LEGAL right to sell METAL copies of the same figures that Fenryll produces in resin? Do they have a royalty agreement for producing same. If they do, then distributors should have the option to purchase either metal and/or resin figures from either. IF they don't have a legal/royalty agreement, shouldnt' the ORIGINAL sculptors/producers of the figures retain "ownership"...And if switching figures from resin to metal, possibly adding a detail or two...without permission or original sculptor ISN'T recasting...then I'm REALLY confused...

Gantalf Inactive Member09 Feb 2003 12:06 p.m. PST

I well know Fenryll. I just can say that Adiken has no authorization to copy Fenryll products. Fenryll has (or will) started a lawsuit against Adiken but it'll take time and money. Because last time Fenryll has spoken in public, Adiken assigns them for slanders, I assume we won't see Fenryll explaining the situation on this forum until a court has sentenced Adiken for imitations !

Sylvain Inactive Member14 Feb 2003 2:23 p.m. PST


Hi Pondman:
you are right, it's illegal.
Adiken has no right to recast the figures I've sculpted (I've done a few one for Fenryll wich appear on Adiken site), and as far as I know they have no right on any of Fenryll model.
Of course you can expect some legal action will occure.

sylvain

unknown member14 Feb 2003 7:32 p.m. PST

Dear Sylvain,
If you are the guy I use to know when I opened a Hobby Shop in France long time ago, (1994), I really doubt on your creativity's talent !
If I recall you right, you were one of my Hobby Shop customers and you have braught to my store, even to my emplyees, many copies of other companies works. Not to mention the name of the companies ! You also braught some fake molds and asked me and/or my employees to produce that and be paid as Freelance. Of course, you do know what was my answer...NO.
Hopefully, Sylvain, someone else has signed your comments for you. If not, you need more courage to signed your words with at least your e-mail address and so on. By the way, you do speak English now? How did you learn ? You are a genious!

To the attention of the TMP readers, I will answer to all of your questions through ADIKEN web site, but I will not disturb you on this web site, which is yours, anymore. Come at the Next Gen Con the Indy one and you will see by yourself.

Alain HENNER
ADIKEN
Les Forges Fantastiques Inc.
235 Peladeau
MAGOG, (Québec) J1X 5G9
CANADA
Tel : (819) 847-1800
Fax: (819) 847-2900
www.adiken.com

Sylvain Inactive Member15 Feb 2003 10:43 a.m. PST

Alain,

you mistake me for someone else. I indeed used to visit your shop (in 1996) but never bring any mold (nor did I did any) or miniature I'd pretend I had sculpted because I started sculpting in 1998 or 1999 after your shop was closed.

You doubt of my creativty's talent? so why have you recasted my necromancer or my dark wizard? I've done many figures for Fenryll which seems to be rather popular, the most recent beeing the "swamp witch", as well as for other companies like Fanatic-Games (understand Games-Workshop) or EM4-miniatures, all those companies having certainly a better jugement than you about creativity and talent, and obviously a better reputation than yours.
I've also won many painting competitions, incuding 7 golden demons in France and UK. Isn't it enough to show some creativity?
As far as I know your shop was a video game shop and you only started selling minis because one of you shopkeepers was a warhammer fan and told you you could make money from that but you never knew about miniature before, you have no real competance or legitimity in the miniature world.

I don't know if this story about someone bringing you fake molds is true or if you made it to try to discredite me, but if it's true it seems your ethic as change a lot since, or maybe do you feel more confident because their is an ocean betwen you and Fenryll? Do you think that Fenryll is too small to defend against you? If so you're wrong!

Your argument are so poor that you need to attack my english? You apparently don't remember me but I've a better memory so if you want a personnal flamming that's definitively not a good idea for you.

Sylvain Quirion
sylvainquirion@hotmail.com
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/sylvain.quirion/


Personal logo Dances With Words Supporting Member of TMP Fezian15 Feb 2003 10:54 p.m. PST

As an attorney friend once told me about purchasing ANYTHING..."Caveat Emptor"..."Let the Buyer Beware"...Sounds promising, doesn't it? Well, in the "debate" over Fenryll and Adiken, the customers will have the "final say"...in the long run. I've looked at BOTH websites...and "compared" some products. My "advice" to "concerned consumers" is to do the same, and make your OWN decision based on what YOU see and believe. I have made my "decision" and spend my hard-earned cash WHERE I want...and when. AND if you've read my previous posts, you know where it ISN'T. I've seen or heard nothing to change that decision and the "mudslinging" by some folks at the ORIGINAL sculptors of certain figures ISN'T appreciated by me, nor I suspect, much of the gaming/miniature-collecting community. Once again...check out the websites YOURSELF...and the truth becomes very obvious as to whom is "copying, etc", whom...This is MY PERSONAL opinion, as a collector and purchaser of gaming and miniature products. Personally, I think Fenryll and Slvain have shown great personal "restraint" considering some of the comments expressed by "would-be detractors" on this board. BUT as I said before...check out the websites yourselves...the information to do so has already been listed. Then act/spend/purchase according to your OWN beliefs. Another old saying, "talk is cheap"...well, my purchase dollars "speak" for themselves...and I'm sure others will do the same....that truly, is the "bottom line"....Carpe' Diem!

gaelgoumon Inactive Member17 Feb 2003 5:00 a.m. PST

Hello,

I'm a freelance sculptor working with Fenryll too. For example, I've sculpted several of the last Fenryll greens you have been able to see on TMP (the 3-stage mages, the 3-stages warriors, the mounted barbarian, the desert dragon, the mounted female dark elf, the female dark elves warriors, ...).

I've just seen Adiken mini and some of them are copies of my works. Nor Fenryll neither Adiken have the right to modify my work and only Fenryll has the right to copy it. I'm chocked by what I've seen !

I just wish to express my disapproval on this piracy.

Gaël Goumon

unknown member17 Feb 2003 6:18 a.m. PST

Hey Alain, I can't wait to hear your reply to this one...


Brandu

ps: Gael, any chance you can sue him? I REALLY hate to see people pull this kind of crap.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.