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"HMGS Cold Wars Lampeter Room Status" Topic


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Don Manser11 Feb 2020 4:17 p.m. PST

What's the status of the Lampeter Room for Cold Wars? From what I understand some of the tournaments have been moved up to the showroom due to renovations.

d effinger11 Feb 2020 6:12 p.m. PST

I'd like to now what will happen to the Flea market and where can we play open gaming if the Lampeter Room is closed?

Don

Al Swearengen11 Feb 2020 6:45 p.m. PST

If they moved games to the Showroom they better have upgraded the lighting.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP11 Feb 2020 7:44 p.m. PST

I'm sure they have an appropriate place in mind for the flea market, d effinger--the storage area behind Hobby U, or possibly an unused elevator shaft.

Or it it's raining, they could move us outdoors.

But I agree with Al. They wouldn't think of treating the tournaments as though they were no better than flea marketeers.

Brian9812 Feb 2020 10:34 a.m. PST

The Lampeter room is not closed at all. I think the convention director is just moving things around. I believe the tournaments are now in the Showroom with much improved lighting. The flea market should be in the Distlefink, and the Lampeter is being used for gaming events.

Double G Supporting Member of TMP12 Feb 2020 10:42 a.m. PST

So the second largest gaming room is now where the flea market will be?

Not sure about that one…………

If the Lampeter is now being used for gaming events, is that open gaming too?

Brian9812 Feb 2020 10:51 a.m. PST

Hi George. I didn't say the flea market would take up the whole room. I think it's going to be in the rear close to the back door. As far as open gaming, since this setup is new, I guess it's a smart idea to just ask at the events desk for table availability. They have the entire gaming schedule in front of them. Hope this helps.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP12 Feb 2020 10:58 a.m. PST

You know, it would be nice of them to share this sort of information with the people paying for flea market tables before we park cars at the Motel Formerly Known as the Host.

I'm picturing maneuvering a two-wheel cart of merchandise up those steps in back--three times. Or is there still a ramp to the lobby level from the front, accessing the dumbwaiter they insist is an elevator to reach the Distlefink?

Brian9812 Feb 2020 11:18 a.m. PST

Hi Robert. You don't need to go up those back steps to get to the Distlefink. There is another door with access from the back parking lot. And I'm sure that many convention updates will be going out in the coming weeks leading up to Cold Wars. Hope this helps.

DeRuyter12 Feb 2020 11:33 a.m. PST

Actually from a loading perspective moving the flea market to the back of Distlefink makes sense. It is an easy ramp with two sets of wide doors. It would be helpful to have reserved spots out back for flea market folks.

HMS Exeter12 Feb 2020 12:24 p.m. PST

RP, I'm not sure what steps you're referring to. If the WB is in the Distelfink, as DeRuyter observed, there is a side loading area door a short uphill roll from the parking between the Host and the Event Center. Think about 15 feet to the left of where that porta-boiler was for so long.

Loading in and out from the exterior should be comparable to the Lampeter, tho this is a much higher traffic area.

The front is completely changed. The old handicap ramp is gone. The new front entrance walk is flush with the lot. There are still steps up to the lobby, BUT at the left there is a new elevator with stops at the entrance level, the lobby level, and the Showroom level. I did a recon after HCon last year.

Don Manser12 Feb 2020 12:50 p.m. PST

"and the Lampeter is being used for gaming events."

Tournaments are now not considered gaming events?

Double G Supporting Member of TMP12 Feb 2020 1:40 p.m. PST

"Hi George. I didn't say the flea market would take up the whole room. I think it's going to be in the rear close to the back door. As far as open gaming, since this setup is new, I guess it's a smart idea to just ask at the events desk for table availability. They have the entire gaming schedule in front of them. Hope this helps."

Thanks for the clarification; it's a big room and unless it's changed since the renovation, I'm having a hard time visualizing how you can have the flea market in there and also gaming, it will be a tight fit. I visited the flea market when it was in the showroom and there are loads and loads of tables, you had aisles that were somewhat wide and a good flow of people front to back and then back again……….people stampeding into the Distlefink for the flea market four times will be nothing short of interesting.

Again, thanks for the clarification.

d effinger12 Feb 2020 2:03 p.m. PST

Lack of proper and timely information leaves many with a bad taste in our mouths. Things like this need proper notifications to everyone. Instead, we get dribs and drabs of partial info. If we didn't ask specific questions when/how/where how would we know?

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP12 Feb 2020 3:09 p.m. PST

You're right. I just never park in that area--or have to get stuff into the Distlefink--and plain forgot. The steps I was thinking of were the ones running down from just outside the Paradise to the former entrance to the Vendors Hall--on a level with much of the parking by the rooms.

And no, of course there will be no accommodation in parking. Why would anyone even think such a thing? But if I get in Thursday afternoon, I can at least part where I'll be hauling stuff downhill. Could be worse. Will be, next year.

HMS Exeter12 Feb 2020 4:10 p.m. PST

Re the stairs down from what used to be "the business area."
The stairs have been retreated. The rickety railing down the middle of the stairs isn't rickety anymore. They removed it. They may have installed a new one in the interim tho.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP12 Feb 2020 4:28 p.m. PST

And I should apologize for my bad temper. If anyone connected with HMGS or with Cold Wars had said "we're moving the flea market to the Distlefink: the lighting is better and you won't need an elevator to get your stuff there" I would have been--well, ought to have been--pleased and surprised. And for all I know, that was the intention.

I should not have let an absence of communication lead me to assume bad intent.

historygamer13 Feb 2020 11:39 a.m. PST

"I didn't say the flea market would take up the whole room. I think it's going to be in the rear close to the back door. "

If there are going to be games in the Distlefink, and the flea market, please make sure to leave an access aisle from the loading doors into the room. In other words, don't block the loading doors with FM tables. GMs use that to unload/load and bring in. :-)

TSD10113 Feb 2020 12:09 p.m. PST

^totally in agreement with historygamer. One of few positive things about the Host in times past was how easy it was to load and unload into Distlefink as a GM and I really hope that doesn't change.

Don Manser13 Feb 2020 1:28 p.m. PST

The Showroom square footage is listed as 13,000 Sq ft. while Distlefink, or as I think they now call it the Grand Ballroom, is listed as having 9,288 sq ft. It would seem that the Flea Market will take up a little more space in Distlefink than "in the rear close to the back door" if the same number of tables are sold.

Grumble8710613 Feb 2020 7:03 p.m. PST

If there are going to be games in the Distlefink, and the flea market, please make sure to leave an access aisle from the loading doors into the room. In other words, don't block the loading doors with FM tables. GMs use that to unload/load and bring in. :-)

Second to historygamer. After "leave an access aisle from the loading doors into the room" I would add "and through Distelfink into the rest of the hotel".

I always use the loading doors at the back of the Distelfink to load/unload my GM stuff. It's a straight shot to the Marietta Room, and no stairs. Parking is always an issue there, and it would behoove HMGS to reserve spaces there for FM and GM loading/unloading. At one recent convention, probably as a stop-gap, that area was designated for handicapped parking.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP14 Feb 2020 1:52 p.m. PST

Well, let's hope they get the table layout right. The good thing about the Black Hole of Lancaster was that you could start at one end and walk through passing every table once and none of them twice. That was never true in the Lampeter.

historygamer14 Feb 2020 4:38 p.m. PST

Plus one to Grumble. My intent as well. Hi

Don Manser15 Feb 2020 6:14 p.m. PST

"They have the entire gaming schedule in front of them. Hope this helps."

Actually, no it doesn't.

47Ronin16 Feb 2020 11:45 a.m. PST

How is the suggestion that someone who wants a table for open gaming purposes go to the Events Desk not "helpful"?

Perhaps the real issue is the fact that the Convention Director decided to move one part of the convention to another location, an act perfectly within her authority, following the renovations to the Host and some people are opposed to that decision?

HMGS is down to one convention at the "New Host." If, as others have pointed elsewhere, the HMGS--Host relationship comes to an end at some point in the future, the Showroom vs. Lampeter/Tournaments vs. Flea Market debate will be moot.

We'll see.

Until then, enjoy the games, whatever and wherever they might be located.

Don Manser16 Feb 2020 4:22 p.m. PST

"decided to move one part of the convention to another location"

It's actually three parts but who's counting?

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP16 Feb 2020 5:59 p.m. PST

The convention director is certainly well within her authority, but more and earlier information helps me to plan and have a better weekend. We're still dealing pretty much exclusively with rumor.

We'll see about the Motel Formerly Known as the Host. But one of its advantages is that we all know where it is, where things are when we get there, and where other things--meals, gas, other motels, toiletries if we forgot something--are in relation to it. If I have to learn a new location, Little Wars is a lot closer.

Doesn't mean they shouldn't move Cold Wars. But it does suggest that they should think carefully first.

As for SF/fantasy games, I summarize my usual argument: given that there are probably at least five fantasy and SF gamers for every historical, we run some risk of being run out of our own convention: dealers and lecturers will "turn to the rising sun" and historical gamers will have to start over from scratch. I hope the board members and convention directors who are historical miniatures gamers are keeping this in mind.

47Ronin18 Feb 2020 11:54 a.m. PST

Regardless of how many parts of the convention are moving, only one constituency (or at least one member of that constituency) is raising an issue about the move.

For those who don't know their HMGS (East) history (you are forgiven, it's no longer a mandatory course at TMP University following the passing of the much beloved Prof. Condray), prior convention directors attempted to move the Tournaments from their long-established location (or at least considered it). Such efforts drew opposition in the past. This time, however, it seems that things will actually change.

For many conventions, the Flea Market crowd was relegated to the "Black Hole of the Showroom" at the Host. (I know because I was there both as a buyer and a seller.) Dark, crowded and dangerous (when it came to loading, unloading and transportation of merchandise) were the hallmarks of the Flea Market in the Showroom. Many sellers (myself included) dropped out whenever the Showroom was used as the FM venue.

The back of the Distlefink will be a vast improvement for the Flea Market, at least in terms of access.

As for the other aspects of the convention that are impacted by the move, they will survive, just like the Flea Market did for years. Like I said above, if the New Host doesn't want HMGS back once the renovations are completed, or if HMGS is priced out of the new location, it's all moot.

We'll see.

Thanks to Brian98 for his updates on the changes.

Enjoy all the events. Hope to see you there.

47Ronin18 Feb 2020 12:02 p.m. PST

P.S. to Robert: FYI, Brian98 is a "reliable source" when it comes to issues at HMGS (East).

You don't have to believe me, just check his past comments on TMP. If he says something, its not a "rumor."

Hope that helps.

historygamer18 Feb 2020 1:01 p.m. PST

"Such efforts drew opposition in the past. "

And the winner for understatement of the year is……

Don Manser19 Feb 2020 4:02 a.m. PST

"Dark, crowded and dangerous (when it came to loading, unloading and transportation of merchandise) were the hallmarks of the Flea Market in the Showroom."

If this is the case, as you clearly state, why put any events in that location? Why would HMGS endanger attendees?

"Many sellers (myself included) dropped out whenever the Showroom was used as the FM venue."

Interesting.

historygamer19 Feb 2020 6:22 a.m. PST

I've sold in the FM in the showroom, and run games there. Granted the lighting is not great, but other than that the room is kind of nice. Wide aisles, sound is level is good. IIRC, there is an elevator up to it as well.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP20 Feb 2020 7:24 a.m. PST

"Why would HMGS endanger attendees?"

I'm not sure HMGS regards flea marketeers as real attendees however much we pay. Possibly they were/are hoping to eliminate us by attrition?

historygamer, there is--or was last year--an elevator to the Black Hole. Access was limited and irregular, and a lot of us wound up carrying merchandise regardless. But I agree the layout once you got there was excellent, and I'd already mentioned that.

Double G Supporting Member of TMP20 Feb 2020 12:29 p.m. PST

"I'm not sure HMGS regards flea marketeers as real attendees however much we pay. Possibly they were/are hoping to eliminate us by attrition?"

Honestly Robert, you beating "woe are the flea marketeers" drum is getting really, really old.

HMGS IMO greatly values and appreciates the concept of Wally's Basement, they as an organization hold it in high esteem and it's extremely unlikely they are looking to eliminate it.

For what reason? They make money off of the tables, it's a draw (for a lot of you, it's the main reason for attending the convention………gee, I'd think gaming would be the main reason, but to each their own) and it's been a long standing tradition, a sacred cow if you will.

Were they ever to get rid of it, you and others in your camp would riot, roll around on the ground, stomp your feet, grab your torches and pitchforks and storm the HMGS castle.

They will never, ever get rid of it, nor should they, myself and countless others have found some wonderful treasures there, others have sold off unwanted items to help them pay for their trip/to use as spending money in the dealer hall. I have a large number of customers who come see me after each and every flea market session with cash in hand to buy items, cash that they otherwise would not have and sales that myself and other dealers would not have.

Getting rid of the flea market would hurt attendance and it would hurt dealer sales as well.

You really need to dial it back and slow your roll, HMGS in my 25 plus years of attending conventions has done a lot for the flea market.

Honestly……………….

dapeters20 Feb 2020 1:32 p.m. PST

"Many sellers (myself included) dropped out whenever the Showroom was used as the FM venue." I agree my intent was to get a FM table but not if it's in the show room.

Double G Supporting Member of TMP20 Feb 2020 2:01 p.m. PST

I agree with Historygamer; I liked the showroom as a flea market venue, the room has a nice flow to it, wide aisles, easy to navigate unlike other flea markets that were a combination of Black Friday when the doors opened at Walmart and the US Embassy in Saigon as the last chopper headed out.

But what do I know, I'm not a professional flea marketer/seller/peddler/flipper/just clearing out this tractor trailer full of unwanted stuff for a friend/our club……….

TRUgamer20 Feb 2020 2:49 p.m. PST

For the love of God someone please go to the Host/Wyndham and go upstairs and take some photos and post them here…

The space is not bad, but the lighting was horrible and the freight elevator was inadequate.

If the space has been renovated maybe this has been transformed into a workable space?

Post some photos and put us all out of our collective misery… please????.

TRU

Rustycop Retired 201922 Feb 2020 10:46 p.m. PST

picture


Update on the showroom construction.

TRUgamer23 Feb 2020 8:16 a.m. PST

Well my mind is at ease now…

TRU

historygamer23 Feb 2020 9:41 a.m. PST

Not sure what that is as it looks like an auditorium, not the show room.

Rustycop Retired 201923 Feb 2020 10:03 a.m. PST

Historygamer I think it's the area facing the stage.

Double G Supporting Member of TMP23 Feb 2020 1:20 p.m. PST

Don't ever change Rusty, you are one in a million……….today was the three year memorial mass for my pops, February 23rd, 2017 and I really, really needed a laugh, so thanks as usual for providing it………………..;)…….

historygamer23 Feb 2020 2:13 p.m. PST

To me, it looks like those are auditorium seats in that photo. There were none of those in the showroom at the old Host. Thus why I asked.

TSD10123 Feb 2020 2:34 p.m. PST

When will we know our table assignments? I would like to be able to prepare before arrival and know where to park/unload when we get there.

Don Manser23 Feb 2020 3:55 p.m. PST

Well it certainly is brighter. ; )

Rustycop Retired 201923 Feb 2020 4:05 p.m. PST

picture

Renovations are complete in the showroom. You can now sit and enjoy the tournament play on stage and root for your favorite player. My personal favorite is Don "The bearded assassin" Manser.

historygamer23 Feb 2020 4:26 p.m. PST

Nice LoL

Double G Supporting Member of TMP23 Feb 2020 6:41 p.m. PST

"My personal favorite is Don "The bearded assassin" Manser."

Or as his friends call him, Spinach Chin.

In a former life, he was the doorman at the Oasis Hotel.

Don Manser24 Feb 2020 4:15 p.m. PST

Kempinski Nile Hotel. Get it right.

Double G Supporting Member of TMP24 Feb 2020 4:27 p.m. PST

Sorry, I got that intel from Oh My Gosh, Emier of Schmoe

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