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"Russian horse grenadiers" Topic


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Comments or corrections?

von Schwartz05 Feb 2020 7:21 p.m. PST

I know we've discussed before but the response were rather vague and inconclusive. I copied a passage from Kronoskaf re: use and deployment of the horse grenadiers during the Seven Years War:

In 1757, when the Russian Army received orders to assemble for the campaign in East Prussia under General-in-Chief Apraxin, the regiment regrouped its best horses and troopers into a few squadrons. Additional horses were levied when the army entered into East Prussia. By July, the regiment could field only 2 or 3 squadrons. Furthermore, its unpreparedness confined it to patrol and outpost service. In combat, its troopers fought dismounted in the second line of infantry. On August 30, at the Battle of Gross-Jägersdorf, it was part of the vanguard. When the Russian Army deployed, it was placed in the second line of the left wing.

So, does anyone have any reliable contradicting information? I'm just not sure how we should use the Russians and how to rate them in terms of their combat effectiveness. The passage above was taken from the description of the Kargoplasky (not sure about that spelling).

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP06 Feb 2020 11:29 a.m. PST

I use them like dragoons given that the Russian dragoons in the SYW were undergoing re-organization and on average were so poorly mounted that only a few regiments saw service in the field (Tverskoy, Nizhegorodkyiy and Arkhangedogorodskkiy and Tobolskky were the only dragoon regiments to see action)

I think the horse grenadiers were overall more effective and at least Kargopolskly (Paltzig, Kunersdorf), Narviskiy (Paltzig), Sankt-Petersburgskiy (Paltzig, Kunersdorf), Rizhskiy (Gross-Jagersdorf) and Fyazanskiy (Paltzig, Kunersdorf) fought mounted

Franconicus06 Feb 2020 11:34 a.m. PST

It may not be quite what you were asking for, but…

Aufgefangener Bericht eines Weinhändlers aus dem Rußischen Lager, an seinen Compagnon in Grodno. Cracau 1758.
"Report from a wine-merchant from the russian camp at Grodno". He is a bit sarcastic as a rule…

Ich übergehe das mit Stillschweigen, was sie mit Recht rühmliches von dem Grenadier Cheval [sic!] gesaget haben, und erwehne nur noch des einzigen Umstandes, daß denselben ihre Grenadiermützen zur merklichen Vertheidigung dienen, über dem, so sind sie nicht allein zierlich, sondern zugleich öconomisch eingerichtet, da über den Theil so den Kopf bedecket, noch ein Deckel in Form einer Mütze, so aus der Materie wovon die Cürasse verfertiget werden gemacht ist, hinten siehet man einen ovalen Abschlag wodurch das Genick beschützt wird, auch denen Grenadiers zu einen Kessel, worin sie ihre Speisen kochen können dienet, wie es denn wenn diese Grenadier bey einer auf sie gemachten Attaque, gliederweise gebückt auf einander liegen, denen Schilden womit die Römer sich bedeckt hatten, nicht unähnlich siehet …
„I'll skip what is rightly said in praise about them." Economical grenadier-caps, made of the same material as their cuirasses with a cap-shaped cover: for protection, as a cooking-pot; grenadiers crouching by ranks against an attack using their caps effectively like the [ancient] Romans their shields.

Bandolier06 Feb 2020 2:15 p.m. PST

I have always viewed the Horse Grenadier regiments as being quite solid and effective from the battle reports I've read.
Treated like dragoons, with healthy morale, seems to be a fair way to rate them. Some regiments would be in better condition than others, especially if they recently saw action.

von Schwartz06 Feb 2020 4:43 p.m. PST

Franconicus
As much as I appreciate your comments, my German is only slightly better than my Russian which is non-existent. Can you translate this?

So considering that Frederick, that would give the Russians 6 Horse Grenadier regiments and 4 Dragoon, and I believe 7? Cuirassier regiments? From my reading of the OOBs provided in Kronoskaf these were mostly 3 squadron regiments, with a couple exceptions.

Franconicus07 Feb 2020 9:25 a.m. PST

Sorry.

I skip what is rightly said in praise about the grenadier Cheval, and mention only the fact that their grenadier caps serve them as a defence. They are not only dainty, but at the same time economically furnished, since over the part that covers the head, there is another cap-shaped lid, made of the material of which the cuirass is made. At the back there is an oval tee which protects the neck. It also serves the grenadiers as a cauldron in which they can cook their food. These grenadiers, when attacked, bend over, using their caps not unlike the shields the Romans protected themselves with …

von Schwartz07 Feb 2020 9:32 a.m. PST

OK, now THAT is very interesting, and humorous!
Now if we can only convince some figure mfg. to give us figures in that rather undignified position. (smile)

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