"Figures for mid to late 15th Century Italian Spearmen" Topic

Hi,

I'm looking to expand my Italian Wars Project back a few years in time and fight battles pre the French Invasion that led to Fornovo. I'll be putting the Landsknechts away for the games and want to build some units to represent the Milita of the City States.

I have found some bowmen (Perry and TAG) that will suit but struggling to find suitable figures for Spearmen (with rotella or larger shield). I've had suggestions of conversions but modelling no matter how simple tends to loose fingers in my case.

I've seen some Paviseers in the Perry Agincourt range and also in the Claymore Castings range but I don't know enough about the earlier period to know if they would work in 1450 to 1494 for City State troops (I'm guessing they would grab any bit of old armour they could find).

If I can get them to match my existing army (Perry, Foundry, TAG) that would be a preference (Mirliton don't really match up sadly).

Thanks in advance.

Regards Ken
The Yarkshire Gamer

I've seen some Paviseers in the Perry Agincourt range and also in the Claymore Castings range but I don't know enough about the earlier period to know if they would work in 1450 to 1494 for City State troops (I'm guessing they would grab any bit of old armour they could find).

Perry European armies and Wars of the Roses ranges work very well. They have italians:

link

As far as City State militia, they would be up to date. Italy was the premier source of armor in Europe. The city states would equip their troops with the latest and greatest. My suggestion would be that if you want 1450-1494 troops. stick with the Perry ranges.

Some modifications to Perry plastics would make them more "Italian" in appearance, such as using the Italian heads:
link

…and Italian shields:
link

link

A good reference point is:

stemmieimprese.it

(It's in Italian, but google translate helps).

Hope this helps.

Cheers, as you can see I have loads of the Perry stuff and have used the heads extensively on my Italian shot and Pike.

Many thanks for the suggestions but I would really like to use something else for the Spearmen if I can.

Regards Ken
The Yarkshire Gamer

There are also the pikemen in Crusader miniatures WotR range that could be used as a basis. These are originally from Corvus Belli, and much slimmer than the usual Crusader models. I think they are pretty close to the Perrys in size, maybe slightly slimmer.

link
link
link

They come with open hands, so you would need to add your own spears trimmed to the suitable size, as well as shields/pavises (Perrys sell separate ones). A few head swaps for variety might not hurt, either…

As for the Perry Agincourt to Orleans range, those figures might look rather old fashioned for the later part of the 15th century. Furthermore, the figures in that range are noticeably larger than the ones in the Perry WotR/European armies ranges.

Cheers Griefbringer, not aware of that range, in the consideration pile, thanks.

Regards Ken
The Yarkshire Gamer

I cobbled some together from spare bits in the Perry sets, to match some minis I bought off a chum, using spare pavises as shields. They aren't perfect but they do the job.

The one problem with Crusader miniatures pikemen is that a number of their figures come with a kettle helmet, which was rarely, if ever, used by Italians:

link

Look at the link I provided above for great examples of how city state militia appeared in the latter half of the 15th century in Venetian service. The examples are 54mm miniatures. The armor and clothing style are straight out of the St Ursula Cycle painting by Carpaccio:

link

My eventual plan for these was to use the Perry pole arm Italian infantry and chop the pole arm out and replace them with spears. They are nice figures to begin with and it's not a massive job

Cheers all,

Nice figs Big Red Bat.

Keith the Perry Polearm figures don't have the Polearm attached, I've used loads of them in the army above as pikemen, just put the pike or spear in the open hands.

I'm after a shield as well as a spear so the Polearm figs don't work particularly well. You would need to move the right arm to accommodate the spear and the left for the shield, unless you put the shield on then back of the figure which I don't want to do.

There must be something picking around suitable, maybe in a medieval range I'm not thinking of.

Regards Ken
The Yarkshire Gamer

Have you tried Front Ranks WoTR range? They have polearm and pikeman standing in an at ease pose with seperate weapons should be easy enough to add a wire spear and a shield?

link

ahhhhh I had no idea the Italian heavy infantry were open handed…i assumed they were cast on weapons…..I will investigate

Hi Keith, would have to check the Heavy Infantry pack but the Polearm packs (first ones on the lists) are definitely open handed.

Regards Ken
The Yarkshire Gamer

@BigRed, lovely work as always.

After some thinking, what about converting the Italian swordsmen from Perrys:

link

They come with shields and suitable clothing and helmets. You could try snipping off the swords, drilling through the hands and glueing on separate spears. Or snip of the whole hand and glue in a spear holding hand from a spare plastic kit (e.g. Perry light cavalry).

As for the Italian heavy infantry that Keith Talent mentioned, they have cast on weapons (and separate shields) so could require more conversion work:

link

Cheers Griefbringer,

that suggestion has been discussed and it is well made without knowledge of my appalling modelling skills, more blood would be shed in an attempt to convert one figure than would in a real Battle !

Regards Ken
yarkshiregamer.blogspot.com

In that case it is probably better not to suggest any further conversions, especially ones involving sharp steel spears.

As for the previously mentioned Front Rank figures, it is worth keeping in mind that these tend to be (by my understanding) somewhat stoutly proportioned, so might not be an ideal fit with Perry figures. There are probably size comparisons out there somewhere.

Perry WotR range also provides two packs of billmen with separate weapons that could be easily replaced with spears, though these do not look particularly Italian in style:

link
link

My efforts at using Perry Plastic Late Medievals as Italian Militia. They still need work before painting, but I'm getting there.

link

link

Loving those conversions, Condottieri. Where did you get the nice big feathers, from? I have struggled to find enough plastic feathers.

I have struggled to find enough plastic feathers.

Games Workshop bits through ebay. Mostly High Elf feathers. Some state troops as well.

Inspired by these 54mm figures of Venetian Terra Firma militia:

link
link
link
link

Nicely done, might have to get another box of plastic Perrys at least with plastic there is less chance of personal injury.

Someone on Facebook has suggest an Old Glory pack PIS09 Italian Milita, anyone have pics of them painted ?

Regards Ken
Http://yarkshiregamer.blogspot.co.uk

I've ordered some of the Italian pole arm heavy infantry, with a bit of luck I'll get them tomorrow…despite being knee deep in Swiss pikemen, I might well play about with converting them this weekend – I'll keep you posted.
IF….they turn out alright…how many do you need Ken? I'm happy to do the conversion work for you if you want and it's not hundreds

As for the plastics, if you want spearmen poking the enemy two-handed with their pointy sticks, in the Perry WotR boxed set there is a set of arms holding a spear in two hands that might be useful. That said, you probably don't want to do a whole unit with arms in the same pose.

Hi Keith,

Thanks for the offer, going to try some Perry Plastics experimenting over the next couple of weeks, see how I get on. Don't forget to post some pics of your efforts.

Regards Ken
Hhtp://yarkshiregamer.blogspot.co.uk