"Wally's at Historicon" Topic

I'm seeking input on a change to Wally's Basement I'm considering for Historicon. During my time at Fall In, I spent some time watching Wally's and came away with the impression that Wally's is quite busy the first hour and then it drops off dramatically after that, the third hour being pretty dead. It led me to wonder if it would be a good idea to cut the Wally's slots to 2 hours instead of one. I'm not proposing reducing the number of sessions, just shortening them from 3 to 2 hours. In going over the volunteer scheduling I came to the conclusion that this change would also help in allocation of volunteer hours.

I'm seeking input from those that spend more time in Wally's what they think about this change. Would it help, hurt, or not affect Wally's in your opinion. I know there are lots of opinions about Wally's and I'm not trying to start an argument. Please keep it civil and respect other people's opinions. If you'd prefer to respond in private you can email me at director@historicon.org. Please include in your comments whether you are a shopper or seller.

Thank you to everyone who takes the time to participate in this discussion and help to improve our show.

Joby

As a table-renter for the Saturday "early" session, I would expect to lose sales through reduced hours. Crowds do not always correspond to sales, and more moves in that third hour than you'd think, and I am continually surprised by my fellow flea marketeers beginning to pack at a time when I'm still moving merchandise. Presumably some of the late buyers would make up their minds faster, but I can't tell you how many--and the ones who come in following a game would simply be lost.

How much are you intending to reduce table fees by? And what would be the hours of the new session you'll add?

Hmpf. One belated hedge. Reducing the hours--or at least letting flea marketeers fold earlier--in the "midnight" session would make it more attractive for me. Not many people are going to show up after finishing a game at 11:00, and I could maybe rent a table and get a decent night's sleep. But we are talking which session rather than how many. When I can't move a hatchback's worth of stuff in one session, I'll have to give up.

Is it worth noting that each 40-table flea market session brings in $1,000 USD to HMGS in return for 8-12 hours volunteer labor? And that it's actually somewhat better than that, since we have to maintain membership in addition to table fees?

I need six more sessions to dispose of surplus gear. Work with me.

Cutting back hours would prevent those in an event from having time to make it.

I find there's an initial rush from those who want first dibs then a lull, then an uptick as new people finally get to it, or previous people want one more look or are ready to buy.

I think 3 hrs is a good fit.

OTOH, if the price is right, I might consider reserving more 2-hr sessions on different days instead of just one 3-hr session on one day.

Hmm.

I am a cagey veteran of a "1,ooo Wally wars" and three hour is fine. buyers come and go throughout the whole 3 hour secession.

Agreed – that third hour though the traffic slackens brings back those who were a bit interested in the first hour and ready to make a deal in the third.

Not sure about others, but during the third hour I often mark down prices to move the stuff left. Likely wouldn't do that if only two hour session. But yes, your observation are correct about the volume of traffic, but as others have noted, that does not always correspond to sales.

Many last minute sales take place in that last hour. Is HMGS going to lower the price of the tables as well for less time. I highly DOUBT that. My club is pretty much fed up with the cons anyway and will sooner or later just stop going. What was my day pass last one? Oh yeah, like $33 USD freakin' dollars. Take away and ask for more should be the new HMGS battle cry.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I must confess to being of 2 minds on this. I can see valid arguments pro and con. I'll bet the vendors would be pleased. As a WB'er, I've never stayed the full duration. I get bored blind by about hour 2. As a WB shopper I always make a point of going thru 3 times. Once during the rush. Once after it thins, and once more near the end. The 3rd go used to be to do an under the tables check, but that's not allowed anymore.

I doubt you're going to get a good answer to this. Things are too much in flux. The internet has seriously changed the WB universe. I now sell everything I want to move thru ebay. Only items that are too large or too valueless for ebay to be feasible are WB candidates anymore. Maybe that's why we see so many board games in the WB.

Additionally 7th Va Cav makes a valid, if disquieting, point. I get the sense that people just aren't buzzed about the big cons anymore. Personally, I find that to be borderline incomprehensible, but his crew are getting fed up. My own crew hasn't been to an HMGS con since the last one at the Host. I keep going, but it's becoming a pretty listless business.

Maybe now isn't such a good time to be experimenting.

What jdpintex said.

Less is not more in this case.

Sounds like they are getting the hammer and final nail ready
for WB.

As a frequent flea marketer, I tend to have a burst of walkthrough traffic toward the end of each three hour session, and I sell well during these rushes. Since we're now up to $25 USD per session for a table, I would prefer that they not further hinder my ability to sell off old gaming stuff. Also, I would like the reinstatement of the Friday afternoon session.

I'm confused about the different cons and time slots.

Guys, there's no final nail, no money grab. I just want to make sure everyone's time isn't being wasted. There have been some requests to end the Thursday night slot earlier either by starting it earlier or making it shorter or both.

On top of that it didn't look very busy to me the third hour at Fall In. I just wanted to know which you guys preferred. Is three hours enough? Do you want 4 hour slots? There likely will be a change to the Thursday night slot but other than that it's up to you guys. This isn't a warning of what's to come it's an attempt to get your input.

7th Va Cav, Historicon did not request a price increase for 2020 and the board agreed it wasn't necessary so there'll be no increase from last year's prices for Hcon. I don't know who you are or what club you're speaking for but you're welcome to contact me privately or at Cold Wars if there are some issues you'd like to discuss going forward. I'm interested in making changes that improve the show.

Thanks everyone for your input.
Joby

I've been a WB regular for a bit over 10 years now, and I'll offer that the 3 hour session length seems to about right for all except the 9pm-12am session, which I believe is more a function of the lateness of the end than the length of the session. A 7pm-10pm or 8pm-11pm session might exhibit similar traits to the sessions occurring during the day time hours, with the initial rush followed by a couple of lulls and upticks mid-session, and a short burst of traffic near the end of the session. As an aside, I worked in the retail research industry for about 10 years, so I sort of can't help analyzing customer behaviors, patterns and related things.

As a vendor, I only sell in the Sunday morning WB, and I have noticed a final hour rush where I get some good sales, but Sunday morning only tends to be about two hours long anyway, so this input is probably not helpful for the general WB situation.

As a buyer, I go late in the first hour to avoid the stampede, and if things are interesting I may go back in the third hour to look again and perhaps find some bargains.

"previous people want one more look or are ready to buy."

My experience summed up

+1 sgibson and Ken Nielsen

Joby, having sat in many a WB with friends as a seller, and often having walked the market tables to find and buy that item I didn't know I really needed, I'll offer this…

3hrs is a perfect time slot. Yes, there is almost always an initial rush. The flipside is there are a lot of last 1/2hr sales that take place… whatever the motivation. Also, at $25 USD you should be offering a 3hr slot; if someone decides to fold his tent early, so be it, he paid his buy-in money and gets to decide when he has had enough.

Seems to me the real issue is timing of the slots. Now, on this score you'll never please everyone so you have to look at what makes sense for the biggest slice of attendees; that would be both as sellers and buyers.

Perhaps, just perhaps, a Friday 2:30pm to 5:30pm, Friday 6:30pm to 9:30pm, Saturday 9am to noon, and Saturday 1pm to 4pm schedule, with the free-open Sunday morning space is worth looking at. There is the consideration of game play, day trippers, late arrivers, and folks who might want to purchase two sessions back to back (so as not to have to breakdwon and reset) and whatever you choose to do needs to consider the spectrum.

Two cents worth,
Bill

Here's how Scrum Con 2020 is handling its No-Hassle Flea Market: link

Well, it's no hassle, Bibliophile, but I'd stay home. Even when I lived in Herndon, off-loading five books or AFVs wouldn't be worth the trip across town. (Anyone who doubts this is cordially invited to drive across DC and back once--then calculate how much they'd pay to not do it again. Books worth that much are not sold in flea markets.)

Serious flea marketeers live on volume.

Perhaps grief is coming from the dealers. We all know there are "Professional" WB dwellers. How many of us have sold things only to see them appear on another's table at a considerable mark up. I'm fine with that, it's called free enterprise.

Attempting to change hours when there have so many changes already the past several years is unwarranted. I go, set up and wait for the rush in. Last half hour the "hoverers" come in to score last minute deals. Its a given. I'm willing to bet some even shop that way in general.

Joby, I appreciate the fact you are looking to improve the cons. I think its needed, and I wish you the best of luck. I'll save my "Day Pass" prices for another argument. That's where about a dozen of us in my neck of the woods have had enough.

+1 to wargamingusa

Whatever you can do to make sure the people selling in the flea market, can then make it to the dealer hall before it closes, so they can spend all that $$.