"How the Founders Sowed the Seeds of Civil War" Topic

"Whether America's founders could have sown seeds of a more perfect union without dooming a following generation to reap the whirlwind of civil war is a question yet on the minds of the nation's historians. Could anything have been done to avoid the bloodbath that took the lives of 2 percent of America's population? It's a staggering figure: 2 percent in today's terms would mean the deaths of everybody in Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. We usually think of nineteenth-century events—the Kansas-Nebraska Act, the Dred Scott decision—when we consider what precipitated the crisis. But the roots of the conflict go back further, back to the formative years of the United States.

The flowers of death and destruction germinated from slavery, unmistakably the chief cause of the Civil War—although economics, geography, culture, fear, and the constitutional ambiguities of states' rights must be factored in. American slavery was a hybrid of seventeenth-century English mercantilism, colonial labor shortages, and what we call racism. It was an evil which, in the interests of revolutionary unity, the Second Continental Congress declined to eradicate in the Declaration of Independence, and which the Articles of Confederation left to blight the Constitution…"
Main page

link

Amicalement
Armand

Yes, I sometimes wonder if you could have magically shown the Founding Fathers from the Southern states the South as it stood in 1865 what their reaction would have been.

Ha Ha! This is great! Has Tango given up sleeping entirely now?

There's a new "hand grenade" from him every other day!

Do we want to start this debate a new or just run it on the end of this one? TMP link

For what its worth, I personally think its high time that the USA stopped treat in the Founding Fathers like Prophets sent from Above.

They were just human like the rest of us and motivated by a whole mixture of intent and self interest. They got a lot right and some not so much.

Since their passing, generation after generation has sought to interpret their various intentions to their own, (often Partisan) advantage.

Its time to admit that they were just a bunch of white dudes who could not possibly foresee the way their words and actions would pan out 200 and some odd years down the road.

If your asking me did they cop out over Slavery, of course they dammed well did!

If the Founding Fathers had known that Eli Whitney was going to invent the cotton gin …

(smile)

Amicalement
Armand

These "bunch of white dudes" had everything it took to craft the foundation for one of the greatest nations that ever existed on this earth. They knew the nature of man was self serving and described ways to protect against it. They also knew what they put together could crumble and might require force to keep it together. Many of them spoke about God and the need for all to trust in Him in order to preserve the Union. All in all, I think they were pretty remarkable without even considering the color of their skin. Oh yeah, some of them were old and rich too

We attribute the evils of slavery to their actions, which is not fair. As DonLowry says, before the cotton gin, slavery was not really economically feasible. And I'm sick and tired of the "old, white man" cracks". They risked everything to bring about a more perfect Union, not a perfect one.

+1 pzivh43

B

My wonder isn't that things happened the way they did. What if the more northern states which could see slavery was in the past north of the Mason Dixon just let the south go in the beginning? The don't let the door hit them on the way out method of dealing with the southern states.

If Jeff Davis hadn't ordered Beauregard to fire on Ft. Sumter that might have happened!

And I'm sick and tired of the "old, white man" cracks"

I don't doubt it. Although I never said they were old. The average age of signatories of the Declaration of Independence was 44. Although they were undoubtedly White.

There are endless games to be played with the concept of "Founding Fathers".

Who were they and how do you count them? Only six people who signed the Declaration of Independence signed the 1787 Constitution as well.

Some academics consider only Adams, Franklin, Hamilton , Jay, Jefferson, Madison and Washington count. Depends on the criteria I suppose.

Moving on.

The only place slavery gets a mention in the 1787 Constitution is in the "Three Fifths Clause" and the "Fugitive Slave Clause"

Neither of which strike me as likely to head off the causes of the Civil War at a later date. On the other hand, had Jefferson's Bill of 1784, to ban slavery in all the Western Territories not fallen by one vote, who knows what may have happened?

And for the record, I don't attribute the evils of slavery to these guys. What I do cast in their direction however, is the enablement of its perpetuation within the United States.

Yeah, give the Old White Guys a break. They didn't invent slavery, but they were the ones who ended it.

"They didn't invent slavery, but they were the ones who ended it."

Little bit of profit in between those two.

Hi Scott,

Well I'll grant you the Not So Old White Guys referred to above didn't invent it but there again it wasn't them who ended it either! :o)

Whole different bunch of White Guys altogether.

Not to mention quite a few Black Guys in Blue Uniforms.:o)

Trajanus--points taken. One final point from me is that it a very rare individual who can see all the ramifications and unintended consequences of their actions. So, while you can say the Founders' actions did lead, after many others contributed, to the Civil War, it certainly wasn't their intention and I believe they would have been aghast at where we ended up in 1861.

Fort Sumter…the firing was done as a response to the resupply convoy trying to come in. Davis didn't "order" anything. It's not like they had radios.

Fort Sumter…the firing was done as a response to the resupply convoy trying to come in. Davis didn't "order" anything. It's not like they had radios.

Davis specifically ordered Beauregard to take Sumter by force unless Anderson agreed to surrender immediately (meaning before the supply ship got there).

pzivh43,

Totally agree!

+1 pzivh43