"What if Wellington becomes Russian.." Topic

Here are Wellington at El Alamein etc. whatif's.. but what may be happened, if Wellington accepted the Czar's offer to take the high command of Muscovites Armies?

Barclay de Tolly prepared the new Russian Army for 1811 invasion against Napoleon, Ukrainian towns were burned to blame the French, and all what needed, was proper commander.

But Wellington declined the offer and other candidates declined too. So invasion was chancelled and Napoleon destroyed this invasion Army on next year.

So imagine Wellington on the head of Muscovites hordes..

Can't imagine he would have been any more popular with the native Russians than a Scot, a Hanoverian, or any other foreigner. Not knowing the country or the language, surrounded by hostile Russian aristocrats, my guess is he would not have achieved much.

To be fair Wellington did very well in India; in Spain he had a lot of Portugese troops in addition to all those Irishmen serving the crown

I suspect he would have done well, but I can certainly see why he would turn down the offer!

Language was'nt obstacle, Russian aristocrats don't speaked Russian also. Even Czar himself don't. There was only one noble house in Sankt Petersburg, where habitants speaked Russian language.

Knowing the country was also not requested, this was an invasion army and purposed to fight outside from Russia, in Europe.

I don't doubt that he could have commanded Russian troops in French; what I doubt is that he would have been able to get the support and willing assistance of Russian aristocrats. That problem bedeviled every "foreigner" who rose to high position in that period. Wellington has a surfeit if great qualities- but his prime ministerial career suggests that intriguing with Russian aristocrats might not have been his strength.

Wellington would probably have surpassed himself:

* Plentiful artillery (not like Brits)
* Plentiful cavalry (not like Brits)
* Being able to present multiple lines of battle (not like Brits)
* Troops that can survive only on potatoes (not like Brits)
* Cossack recce troops
* Good logistical support
* No Horse Guards to knaff things up
* As an outsider – immmune to petty politicking
* Would probably have earned and retained the Tsar's Ear

@Sho Boki, can you please expand on your note on the lack of knowledge of Russian by the Russian officer corps? I would have thought that any native born officer (and "foreign" officers born in the Russian empire like de Tolly) would have at least spoken rather decent Russian, sort of like Friedrich II could speak German at times ;)

Can you point to some books that might illuminate or expand on what you are presenting? Thanks!

One thing is knowing the language, more or less, but not using this language is another thing. Of course foreigners, who becomes Russians on earlier periods, may talked and definitely talked in premodern Russian language. Especially country nobles and habitants in old towns. But elite nobles in Sankt-Petersburg and high command is another opera. Only in house of Pushkin you may hear Russian language in Sankt-Petersburg then. And Pushkin was also from former foreigner family. Not to speak about Kutuzov, who only hold longer roots to past. Russian Army was army of "thousands nations".

At Borodino some Russian officers tried to change their flamboyant hats to humble Russian forage caps, because their soldiers and cossacks may take them as French and they can't explain who they are because not knowing the language.

If Wellington takes this post – he becomes Russian too, without knowing Russian language, as many others. Russian means – foreigner in Czar's service. Local serfs, modern Russians, were slaves without nationality and rights on these days. Even only hundred years ago Lenin wrote not about Russians, when he talked about local people, who come from many different natives, forced to forgot their own language and to speak in premodern Russian with adopting Orthodoxy, but about "Velikorusskie", Great-russians, habitants of lands, conquered by foreigners – Russians.
Even modern Russian language was compiled by foreigners.

If you want to read a modern Russian book about Russian napoleonics history, then I suggest Evgeni Ponasenkov: "The first scientific history of the War of 1812."

This guy comes from last generation of historics, who try to answer not to questions – who, where, when, what, how.. but to question – why. Of course all old orthodox KGB bunch of Russian state "historics" are against him as wolf pack. Now this guy writes a new book, about IIWW. Putinists are furious.

seemingly not available in English, German or French, what a pity.

Yes, this book is for Russians himself, showing them their true history and destroying the old Russian propaganda myths.

I have pdf version, today I got coupon from our biggest book seller and immediately tried to buy a paper version but was too late, all paper copies were sold out.

@Sho Boki, thank you for expanding, very much appreciated. If I may follow up, would elite nobles in Sankt Peterburg speak French overwhelmingly or German or a Scandinavian tongue, or would each house speak a different language?

With many emigres or other officers from foreign lands, e.g., Saint Priest as Bagration's chief of staff, would orders and discussions at the division, corps, and army levels be often or mostly in French?

I'll have to research the history of the Russian language a bit more, thanks for the primer, and the recommendation.

Of course German Russians, the most numerous contingent of new first generation of Russians, speaked in German together, but lingua franca was French, as elsewhere.

But all this is not mean, that Russian was not in use. Older generations of provincial Russians may even not to know other languages at all. And official documentation must be written in state language.

Does he get T34s?

I doubt.

One thing always amusing me, when I watch Soviet movie "War and Peace". At Austerlitz Czar talks with Kutuzov in Russian.. and Austrian Emperor clearly understand. ;-)