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"Old School Style Horse & Musket Rules" Topic


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1,531 hits since 29 Dec 2019
©1994-2020 Bill Armintrout
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HM18172 Supporting Member of TMP29 Dec 2019 1:16 p.m. PST

I have created a set of horse and musket rules inspired by the classics such as those by Grant and Young. They are not comprehensive by any means but perhaps useful for those familiar with the classic rules but who want a concise set to use as a base for their own amendments.

link

Von Trinkenessen29 Dec 2019 3:45 p.m. PST

Sounds cool just printed it off, just what i need for a long term side project ( 7yw imagine nations)
Many Thanks
Guy

rmaker29 Dec 2019 11:40 p.m. PST

Thank you.

arthur181530 Dec 2019 9:43 a.m. PST

And Thank you from me too!

rmaker30 Dec 2019 1:32 p.m. PST

Questions:

Why the -1 modifier when firing at cavalry?

I presume the figures are individually based. What size figures, what size bases?

Snowcat30 Dec 2019 4:38 p.m. PST

Thank you! :)

Snowcat30 Dec 2019 5:44 p.m. PST

What is the significance of the double-line formation for cavalry units? Why use it? How does it work differently from a line formation of cavalry in the game?

Cheers

HM18172 Supporting Member of TMP30 Dec 2019 8:34 p.m. PST

Thanks for feedback everyone.
Firing at cavalry is half casualties not -1 modifier. It is an old school convention I carried over, I believe it accounts for fact that horses will absorb some of the fire. I use the rules for 1/72 plastic figures, based individually on Litko bases. 18mm rounds for infantry and artillery figures and custom ovals that are 18mm wide and I believe 40mm in length for mounted figures. There are some pics on my blog.
As far as double-line, it is mainly to accommodate narrow terrain, I may have gotten the idea from another rule set but don't remember where. Otherwise no significance.
I view the rules like an open source software, open to modifications and individual interpretations. Happy to get feedback on mechanisms that don't seem to work well.

Snowcat30 Dec 2019 10:38 p.m. PST

So relatively speaking, if a cav unit in double-line contacts a regular infantry unit in line, it will fight at half strength compared with cav in line (because of half the figures in frontal contact)…? But if there were 2 cav units in double-line, side-by-side, both could frontally contact the same regular infantry unit in line? Correct?

HM18172 Supporting Member of TMP01 Jan 2020 6:37 p.m. PST

Snowcat, that is generally correct. I assume most of the segment of regular infantry not in contact will not be in the fight with the cavalry. The double line allows the cavalry to replace losses from fire in the first line. Technically, I think little difference in two lines supporting each other in succession and two units in double line attacking side by side, although could be unit morale issues I have not considered.

Marc the plastics fan03 Mar 2020 10:46 a.m. PST

I assume a D6

Charging. Any benefit

Column v line. Is it a movement modifier only

Firing at a charging unit – what range would you select

Countercharges – any particular thoughts or methodology?


Interesting. Definitely like the firing mechanism, so I reckon we'll worth a play and a tinker

Thanks for sharing

Clays Russians05 Mar 2020 11:35 a.m. PST

What size forces are you envisioning? The Grant scenarios orders of battle? 5-10 btns of foot, 4-8 squadrons, and 2-3 battery's? It's a good idea really for someone who wants to leisurely collect and play a musket period theme.

HM18172 Supporting Member of TMP05 Mar 2020 5:29 p.m. PST

Marc, Clay,
Good timing. I just posted some pics of a small action I recently set up to further test and refine the rules. Here is the link to my blog:
https://hm18172.blogspot.com
Clay, I am envisioning Grant type scenarios (I hope to work through some of CS Grant's "Scenarios for All Ages). The scenario I just posted used all my current available forces, each side had:
3 units of line infantry
1 unit of light infantry
1 artillery unit of two guns
1 cavalry unit of two squadrons (4 companies in the rules)
Marc, yes all dice are D6, no benefit to charging other than to force a decision. I am using 0-6 range for firing at any charging unit but nice addition would be to have a variable test for infantry being charged by cavalry (roll D6: 1-3 is at long range, 4-6 at shorter range). I haven't thought through a countercharge mechanism but interested in any thoughts you have.

von Schwartz05 Mar 2020 7:05 p.m. PST

Looks interesting but appears to be more or less a large scale skirmish set of rules. With 32+ figures per battalion you're probably not likely to be fielding more than a brigade per side.

Marc at work06 Mar 2020 5:27 a.m. PST

vS – Grant used to have 48 figures plus 5 officers per unit.

Just needs more time to play I reckon :-)

HM – thanks – I will revisit. I have printed off a set to ponder and consider.

With charging, the concern I always have is – what's in it for the attacker. They have to suffer fire on the way in, so unless they significantly outnumber the enemy, I think a bonus is a good incentive. But I am just pondering – whereas you have actually got off your behind and made it happen, so please don't take any of my comments as criticism please.

My units are Grant sized, but I also have extra officers so I can split into smaller units. If you are on FB I will send you some piccies of my stuff if you are interested.

Glad to see its an active project – as this has come at just the right time for me.

Thanks again

Marc

HM18172 Supporting Member of TMP06 Mar 2020 5:37 p.m. PST

VS, certainly can be used for skirmish, but designed for old school type games. I have an 8X6 table so can comfortably field 8+ infantry units with supporting cavalry and artillery without it getting too crowded.

Marc, Glad to get your thoughts and am certainly not offended. In an effort to keep them short and simple, I assumed the charging really never worked in an infantry vs infantry situation, unless the target was on the verge of breaking, so assumed it would be for cavalry mainly and didn't think to incentivize infantry. But again, I put them out there to get feedback and ideas so interested in your thoughts.

After years of collecting 18mm AB Napoleon's using a variety rule sets, this project was inspired by a desire to revisit the concepts that got me hooked on this hobby many years ago.

von Schwartz06 Mar 2020 8:07 p.m. PST

I used to really enjoy the old Bruce Quarrie Napoleonic rules with a 1:33 ratio and using pen and paper to record losses to a unit. But we understood those were tactical rules. Then Empire 3 came out with grand tactical rules and everyone was salivating with anticipation. Hated those rules, the most blatantly biased set of rules I have ever seen!

Sorry lads, went off on a bit of a personal rant there.
These rules look good, one of the biggest deterrents in my present state is financial. One battalion in this scale costs as much as three in my current 1:50 ratio. Well, if someone has the figures, I'd play!

Marc the plastics fan08 Mar 2020 5:18 a.m. PST

Plastic 1/72. So affordable for these projects

HM18172 Supporting Member of TMP08 Mar 2020 5:45 p.m. PST

VS, I'd invite you for a game but unfortunately it looks like we are 1,200 miles apart! Agree with Marc, plastics are an economical way to try this out. Now that Hat produces 7 yrs war marching and command sets, you can put two or three big battalions together for about $40. USD All the units on my blog are 1/72 plastics. I'll admit the Revell Austrian Artillery figures were hard to find a bit more expensive, but Zvezda sets work fine for 18th century.

HM18172 Supporting Member of TMP14 Mar 2020 9:33 a.m. PST

I updated the rules,added a bit more clarity around Hand-to Hand combat and incorporated feedback from Marc on firing ranges. I Cleaned up the formatting and diagrams. After playtests, decided that just one cavalry line formation works, should be two ranks, allowing for reinforcements of first line in melee. I added rules for artillery fire at a column formation and a table summarizing all of the fire rules. Enjoy

Marc the plastics fan15 Mar 2020 11:56 p.m. PST

Thanks HM. I did try commenting direct on your blog but nothing worked. Sorry

HM18172 Supporting Member of TMP20 Mar 2020 5:13 p.m. PST

Marc, posts worked, I finally had a chance to respond – thanks

Marc the plastics fan21 Mar 2020 3:15 a.m. PST

Argh. Blogger. Seems to be playing up again. Cannot comment on Jeffers either. So frustrating

Facebook seems so much more user friendly these days

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