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"JFK’s war hero legacy would never have existed" Topic


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Tango0119 Dec 2019 8:43 p.m. PST

….if this top secret mission didn't go wrong

"As far as American presidents go, John F. Kennedy had a lasting legacy for as short-lived as his tenure was. From his heroics in the Pacific during World War II to the Cuban Missile Crisis, from sounding the charge that would eventually lead to the Americans beating the Soviet Union to his untimely assassination, his life would lead to everything from the Kennedy Space Center to the USS John F. Kennedy being named after him…"
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Amicalement
Armand

Blutarski20 Dec 2019 8:28 a.m. PST

JFK may have been personally brave, but his performance as a combat commander was, to be extremely kind, "unimpressive". The Kennedy presidential media machine made every effort to keep the public's eye focused upon JFK's exertions to save himself and his stranded crewmen.

Why did they need saving? Look into the real details of the loss of PT-109.

Then look into how and why JFK was assigned to PT-109 in the first place.

B

SBminisguy20 Dec 2019 9:44 a.m. PST

JFK may have been personally brave, but his performance as a combat commander was, to be extremely kind, "unimpressive".

No need to go there -- he volunteered for extremely hazardous duty instead of getting assigned to a more politically advantageous CV or BB. PT boats had about a 20% loss rate, that means statistically you're dead after 10 missions. They zoomed real fast, but had lots of problems.

1. The PT boats were basically plywood fuel tanks filled with high octane gas to feed their powerful engines. Very little armor for crew.

2. PT boats often suffered engine and fuel issues in the humid marine South Pacific environment. Water in the fuel could cause the engines to quit, rust and corrosion meant the crew waged a constant maintenance battle to keep the boat going.

3. Severe torpedo issues that hampered PT boat combat ops.
The Mark 8 torpedo was notoriously bad.

*They used a black powder charge to launch the torpedo out of its tube, and in the wet humid environment that powder could clump or cake, and not fire properly leaving the torpedo in the tube or just plopping into the water.

*That same charge would often produce a pronounced flash f light at night and burst of black smoke that gave away the PT boat's position.

*The gyro sucked and was often thrown out of alignment when the torpedo slapped into the water, so they often wouldn't run true or just dive to the bottom.

*The 500lb warhead wasn't strong enough to outright kill or disable most ships, many skippers reported solid hits on targets that just steamed away.

*Faulty exploders with a 50% failure rate -- that means after all the other issues, half the time you scored a hit the torp wouldn't explode!

*Slow, at just 36kts an IJN DD could just hit the gas and get out of danger.

4. The end of the Line in 1943 -- they were the last Naval units to get supplies and attention. The Battleship Gang felt the PT boats were a novelty gimmick, a expendable stop-gap that would have to make due until the "Real" Navy could get enough fighting ships built and into action.

So their main weapon was crap, they had a 20% fatality rate and they were also last in line for supplies and support.

Brutal.

And then the PT109 got sunk was a total CF that wasn't Kennedy's fault. The guy leading the squadron in an attack on a group of IJN DDs (remember -- the IJN DD has waaayyyy more fire power, is *faster* than crappy US torps, and can take hits the Plywood PT boats can't -- so that's very ballsy!) was ordered by the group commander that he couldn't use radios 'cause the enemy might hear. BUT -- the group commander would send out radio commands in the blind from homebase 40 miles away telling the squadron what to do and where to patrol, with no freaking idea of what was going on 'cause the boats couldn't radio back sitreps.

So the whole thing became a sh&t show. The PT boats quickly got separated at night and lacked the ability to launch a coordinated ambush, and each boat was left to its own devices. Kennedy had crossed the wake phosphoresence of an outbound IJN DD and decide he'd lurk with engines idling near the wake, figuing the DD would come back the same way from its supply run and he'd get a crack at it. Oops, miscalculation, the DD did come back, the PT Boat crew didn't spot it in time on a foggy moonless night -- maybe having been on a combat op for 7 hours already dulled their senses. Anyways, too late, bang!

And when the boat got cut in half and burst into flame, two nearby PT boats saw the explosion, launched hasty torps attacks that failed and zoomed off without checking for survivors with an angry IJN DD nearby -- they reported PT109 lost with all hands.

So no rescue for you, Mr Kennedy! Then what he did to save crew members, what he endured with a fractured spine is crazy heroic. Hauling guys out of the burning wreck, getting them to an island, multiple swims to get more guys, then more swims to get help.

So whatever you think of him as a POTUS, he deserves every recognition for saving his crew after a total sh*t show battle.

Tango0120 Dec 2019 11:43 a.m. PST

Thanks!.


Amicalement
Armand

Blutarski20 Dec 2019 8:29 p.m. PST

SBminisguy,
Fair comment. I'm not arguing that JFK was an intrinsically bad man, just that he was not a very good combat officer that night. For example, not seeing Amagiri until it was within 300 yards of his boat. Was anyone keeping watch? Upon reflection, it might all have been because he was fresh from the states and had not yet "learned the ropes".

Go here for the official report -
link

Go here for more -
link

And here -
link

- – -

In the interest of "fair disclosure" – I was born, raised and lived the first 68 years of my life in Massachusetts, otherwise known as the personal fiefdom of the Kennedy clan. I became thoroughly disgusted by the Kennedy political machine and the way they rode roughshod over anyone in their way. They owned the press and could lie to the public to their heart's content.

Meanwhile, Happy Christmas.

B

jdginaz20 Dec 2019 8:52 p.m. PST

They didn't have engine trouble. It had been the practice for some crews to idle their engines drift so they could listen better for barges. But because of the danger to the boats if discovered due to the amount of time it took to get up to speed, Command had forbid the boats from idling and drifting.

That is what they were doing when they saw the Japanese destroyer bearing down on them and they were unable to speed up quick enough to get out of the way.

That is one of the reasons he didn't want like to talk about what happened he and he was violating orders.

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