"AFVs at Carentan / Utah?" Topic

I am looking for the specific variants to get for operations centered on 101st Airborne from D-Day through Carentan.

I understand the 17th SS PzG had StuG IVs. Other suggestions?

Sherman versions and other AFVs supporting 101st Airborne (2nd Bn, 66th Armored Regt)?

I can't find my link now, but I'm pretty sure the 2nd Armored Division was standardized on M4A3 (75mm) during June. Zaloga's "ARMORED THUNDERBOLT" has tables that confirm no 76mm-armed versions.

The main panzer unit engaged early in the area on was 100th Panzer Battalion, equipped with a mix of Renault R35 and Hotchkiss H39 (plus a handful of PzIIIs, a Somua and a Char B in a command role).

17th SS Panzer battalion had 42 Stug IVs in three companies and fought at Bloody Gulch.

otherwise it is just CCA, 2nd AD and that is about it for armour in the battle for Carentan (never mind the SS Tigers and Jagdpanthers in SPR and BoB!).

More German armour turned up later in area in the battle for Normandy, but the battle of Carentan was long over by then. In early June it was mainly Panzer Lehr, 2nd Panzer, 21st Panzer and 12th SS plus their supporting Tiger battalions fighting around Caen.

IInd SS Panzer Corps plus its Tigers wasn't action until Operation Epsom, again around Hill 112.

IIRC the "rebuilt" 21st Panzer Div had a number converted French AFVs in their units at Normandy as well.

Thanks for the direction regarding 100th Panzer Bn.

Here is something I found on a discussion board -

Unit raised in April 1941 in Germany. One year later it moved to France. May 18, 1944 attached to 91st Division (most likely 91 Luftlande Division). Manpower strength: 664 men. List of tanks: 14 French Renault R-35; 8 French Hotchkiss (no model given); 1 French Somua; 1 French Char B-2; 1 German Panzer III. There were also 5 French light tanks with short 3.7cm guns the author believed could have been Renault FT-17s. The unit is shown as attached to the 91 LD as late as June 22, 1944. No record of the unit shows up after June 23, however it is listed as disbanded on July 1, 1944. The author believes the unit was destroyed.

Any thoughts on the version of Pz III which would have been on hand?

Also, back to USA, other than Shermans and maybe an M-10, what other vehicles would seem in order?

Also, back to USA, other than Shermans and maybe an M-10, what other vehicles would seem in order?

Stuarts, surely. And halftracks.

M-20's and M-8's???

M18s too …

It seems 17th SS Panzer Bn was issued 12 Flak panzer 38s as well, but they didn't arrive until 17th June.

Re the Pz IIIs in Pz Bn 100, no one actually knows if there were one or three of them, nor if they were 50mm shirt or long guns. I gave them a single Pz III (kz) as the French tanks are far more fun.

They fought at Neuville a Plain and La Fiere.

For 2nd AD, possibly M8 HMCs? Not sure if they'd been replaced by 105s by this time.

I can't be any help to the OP but all this talk of French tanks in German service reminds me of playing Close Combat V : Invasion Normandy on my computer years ago those French tanks where pretty rubbish but when your opponent where paratroopers with no armoured support they became kings of the battlefield.

"reminds me of playing Close Combat V : Invasion Normandy"

Ah yes, happy days. I seem to recall a rather bizarre Stuart turned up to help the US paras in some of the force selections.

CC2 was my favourite of the series, although I liked the campaign system in CC4.

I didn't think the Hellcat was available until after D-Day. But I guess it was at Anzio, so maybe.

"Ah yes, happy days. I seem to recall a rather bizarre Stuart turned up to help the US paras in some of the force selections."

Wasn't that supposed to be M8 Howitzer Motor Carriage? no idea why the us paras had one though.

Concerning the PzIII: No hard fast info I could find on type. One source says it possibly was a Befel (command) panzer. I found a source that implies the Somua and/or the charB1 were flammpanzers. Again nothing definitive.

Zimmermit on Pz IVh's at Normandy, or not?

Wasn't that supposed to be M8 Howitzer Motor Carriage? no idea why the us paras had one though.

Probably was temporarily attached. Or more likely was driving by and saw the paras needed a little extra help with firepower.

"Zimmermit on Pz IVh's at Normandy,"

Some did, some didn't. Depends how old they were.

None of the units which fought the 101st in the Battle for Carentan were equipped with Pz IVs though. All the photos of Stug IV I've seen are without zimmeritt. I guess the three command tanks 17th SS Panzer Bn had may have been Pz IVs.

Re the Pz IIIs in Pz Bn 100, no one actually knows if there were one or three of them, nor if they were 50mm shirt or long guns.

In "Gotz von Berlichngen" by Perrigault and Meister there are several photos of the Panzer IIIs. The authors identify an Ausf. F, a J and an M, making one short 50 and two long 50s.

deephorse
By chance do you recall if the Pz IIIs have skirts?

Wow, thread resurrection. I'll have to get the book out and have a look. My memory isn't as good as that!

The Panzer IIIs are all without skirts. The StuGs are a mix of with and without, but mostly with.

Thanks

I found a 1/56 StuG IV, but no PzIIIm. Wishing Blitzkrieg had both. Really like their vehicles and they certainly are easier to build and sturdier than others.

Continuing to add bits and pieces.

If I am going to get 2x SdKfz 251, suggestions on variants for use with 17th SS?

Going back to the book I previously mentioned, the only 251s in photographs are of the 251/7 variety, without bridges.

As of 7th June, it is written that Panzer Grenadier battalions are only partly motorised "with whatever came to hand". The Recce Bn. did have some 250/9s.

this is off hand as i havent researched this battle in years, 42 stug IV, one broke down. 13 marders iii? in the antitank unit.
I know there was a stuart but I think it was knocked out in carentan.
I think the US arty was m7 priests. The paras had a few 57mm antitank guns as well.

The 17th ss did not have many 251s it seems or were at best poorly equipped. There is a video of at least 2 of them iirc.