"So what does "True" mean?" Topic

True 15mm True 28mm?

In theory it means that the 15mm miniature is 15mm from foot to eyes. But sizes are all over the place these days so it doesn't mean much. Many figures sold as 15mm are 18mm, 19mm, 20mm.

Same thing for 28mm and other sizes.

Following on from jrbatso, I'm not sure there is a true.

My 40mm (www.triguardminiatures.com) are in theory 40mm from sole of foot to eyes. Which is fine. But there are other manufacturers of 40mm which appear to be 40mm from sole of foot to top of head.

There is no more validity in one of those versions of 40mm than there is in the other. Probably just something that manufacturers need to be clear about when advertising their ranges?

When they measure my height they do not go from my foot to my eyes ??

Back in the '80s, somebody was threatening to take the size issue to some sort of British national board of standards (sorry, don't remember the exact title of the government organization). Guess that didn't happen, huh?

Grelber

If our figures didn't have such a wide variety of headgear, it would make sense to measure to the top of the head.

"True" to me generally means an older sculpt, and a smaller figure than what is the norm these days.

If 28mm represents a man 6 foot tall from the bottom of his feet to the top of his head, around 25mm would be a man 5 foot 5 inches tall and 30mm a man about 6 foot 5 inches.

The point is there is no reason to get hung up on "true" scale since the height of any formation of men in ranks will NOT all be the same height.

In fact, variation in the height of your miniatures will be a much more accurate representation rather than everyone the identical height (unless you are building an army of Clones!)

Kim

Going back to the RalPartha time, figures began scale creep and still called themselves 25mm. So if a figure range did not follow along, they were called true 25mm.

Some 15mm measure boot sole to top of the head, some to the eyes, and one or two to the top of the hat!

Remember, the figures are "built up" by human hands one at a time --a pinge of epoxy by the designer here and there and there you have it ??

In the Paleozoic era, "true 15mm" used to mean total height, and was not measured to the eyes of the figs.

That's my interpretation, "true" measurements are to the top of the head (or wherever that should be). These new-fangled "only measure to the eyes" measurements are fake !!!

I have had in mind a scene where the sergeant of the Guards eyes a soldier suspiciously. "How tall did you say you were ?" Asks the sergeant. "Five foot and ten inches, serge" says the guardsman. "That can't be right", says the sergeant, "I'm six foot one and you are taller than me !" "But I only measure to my eyes" said the soldier ……

True 15mm means figures the same size as the original 15mm figures produced in the 1970s. So rather smaller than todays 19mm bloaters.

Just like modern '28s' are more like 32mm or even 35mm.

Of course if these things had a scale…..

I'm flashing back to the early 1970's, when Staddens and Surens were marketed as 30mm, though they were clearly about 10% taller than a Scruby 30mm. When we were told that Stadden and Suren were measuring soles of feet to eyes, it was widely regarded as a cheat. The oldest wargamers in the group had never heard of such a thing.

Armies from multiple manufacturers have to be built up very carefully these days.

"True scale" is whatever size fits in with your 45 year old collection that is not complete or longer on the market because not enough people want it any longer.

Russ Dunaway

Sadly too, some unscrupulous seller/retailers bill their miniatures incorrectly as well.

25mm WWII troops being billed now as 28s, since few purchase the older, smaller ranges. Only the name has been changed, not the size of the minis.

Buyer beware.

Using height as a figure scale was started by manufacturers that couldn't match model scales in all dimensions, e.g., their figures weren't accurately 1/72, but were consistently the right height, so they called them 20mm.

Since scale already wasn't scrupulously followed, over time all the height-based scales underwent size creep. It's easier to sculpt bigger details, and a slightly bigger figure looks heroic compared to a properly sized one. Or cartoony, if you don't care for the look.

"True" size refers to accurately-heighted miniatures. This means from the soles to the top of the head. I don't have a link at present, but there are posts around by long-time figure sculptors explaining how no sculptor would take some other body part as a sizing reference.

The other terms were invented for marketing purposes to rationalize size creep. Customers looking for 25mm will ignore a different scale such as 28mm. But the manufacturer can still sell to that market if they label the figures 25mm, and explain it's "heroic 25mm", or that "these are 25mm to the eyes".

Nowadays, "true" tends to mean "smaller than other figures marketed at the same scale".

So Truexmm = xmm, I thought so lol, here a chance for HMGS to step up and give a definition. But given how the flea market has been bounce around of the years, I won't hold my breath.

With regards to 1/72 scale, if that is truly a 20mm tall figure, that figure would represent a man all of 4 feet and 9 inches tall! Doing the math: 20mm x 72 = 1,440mm, or 4 feet 9 inches(1,440 / 25.4 = 56.7 inches = 4 feet 9 inches).

With 6 feet equaling 72 inches, it is far more plausible that 1/72 scale refers to a man who is 6 feet tall, rather than a man who is 4 feet 9 inches tall. Using the scale of 1/72, a 6-foot tall man would be represented by a 25mm / 1-inch tall figure.

Using the scale of 1/76, a 20mm figure would represent a man who is 59.8 inches tall, or 5-feet (60 inches = 5 feet). A 6 foot tall man would be represented by a figure 24mm tall, per the math.

The idea that 1/72 scale figures are 20mm tall, does not make much sense, unless you want your soldiers to be less than 5-feet tall. I prefer my Humans to be, on average, 6 feet tall, so I prefer 25mm tall figures, when I can get them. The 28mm tall figures, are equal to a man who is 6 feet 7 inches tall. I mix them, but I realize their size differences, and play with them anyway. YMMV. Cheers!

How did we end up with six feet as the "standard" height anyway? For most of history it's rather tall, and even today it's above avg male height in almost all countries.