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"Using TSATF for modern combat?" Topic

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nnascati Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse01 Dec 2019 7:03 p.m. PST

Playing around with using TSATF for the Vietnam War. What is the best way to handle modern assault rifles? Should I give them 3d20, or adjust everything down?


Personal logo aegiscg47 Supporting Member of TMP01 Dec 2019 8:07 p.m. PST

It might be more accurate to just use the single 1D20. Although the rates of fire are obviously much higher than in the Victorian Colonial era, the accuracy for the Vietnam War left something to be desired, There was a ton of ammo expended for little results in most firefights.

nnascati Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse01 Dec 2019 8:08 p.m. PST

Makes sense. I figure US and allies as British, NVA as Egyptian, and VC maybe as Zulus.

4DJones02 Dec 2019 2:05 a.m. PST

I'm sure there's as WWII (Pacific?) variant somewhere. And in the Yahoo Swordflame group's files there was a SiFi verion: The Sword and the Powerflamer.

BorisTheSpider02 Dec 2019 3:22 a.m. PST

There is a variant, "The Book and the Gun" link Never tried them though

nnascati Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse02 Dec 2019 5:21 a.m. PST

Boris, thanks I was pretty sure I had seen that.

Personal logo Andrew Walters Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2019 11:40 a.m. PST

It depends on what situations in Viet Nam you want to evoke. One of the key facets of TSATF is soldiers moving in groups in various formations. You don't see that much in Viet Nam, at least not once the bullets start flying. And while there was a lot of wild fire in Viet Nam, with full auto you have the chance of hitting several people with one burst – if they are packed together like the various formations in TSATF.

So I guess if I wanted to do The Sword And the Frag Grenade or whatever, here's what I would think about:

#1 Write up a specific description of the types of actions you're trying to recreate: distances, ranges, number of troops, availability of support, etc. By constraining the project here you can allow yourself to ignore elements of Viet Nam that don't translate well into TSATF.

#2 Look at Boilers and Breechloaders or With Ol' Gimlet Eye or another variant/expansion/add-on that includes automatic weapons. Use this as inspiration for the tripod-mounted guns.

#3 Make up rules for mines, wire, artillery strikes. That's pretty easy.

#4 Make up rules for another type of formation, Really Loose is probably a bad name, but that's the idea. This is when a squad or platoon are spread out and taking cover. They would move very slowly, but be much more resistant to fire. They would not be able to provide much mutual support in a melee.

Bismarck02 Dec 2019 1:42 p.m. PST

If you look at the TSATF variant "with Old Gimlet Eye" which Larry did for the Banana Wars. it would take little to modify it for Vietnam. Even has provision for air support. There is coverage for mortars and rifle grenades, thompsons and Lewis guns(which would work for your M60s). Only things you would have to tweak would be for the LAWs, RPGs and bazookas. Variant is a stand alone and d10 based. It is a great game as are all of Larry's.

Oops, just saw Andrew's post which included these rules after I posted.


Liliburlero Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2019 2:39 p.m. PST

Thanks to Boris the Spider for the link to "The Book and The Gun". I wasn't aware of that variant.

nnascati Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse02 Dec 2019 4:56 p.m. PST

Andrew, thanks for those ideas. And Lori, thanks to your Dad for creating this wonderful toolbox.

nnascati Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse02 Dec 2019 5:00 p.m. PST

Andrew, I play mostly solo, or with my son in law who really just picks up rules as I give them to him. So I happily fudge to suit my needs.

Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP03 Dec 2019 5:47 p.m. PST

Are there really no other rules suitable for this? This seems like the hardest possible approach.

nnascati Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse03 Dec 2019 7:52 p.m. PST

Flashman14, I am reaching the point in life (69), where I don't have the patience to wrap my head around new rules systems. I look to the ones I know and try to make them fit.

Nick Stern Supporting Member of TMP06 Dec 2019 8:41 a.m. PST

If you come up with helicopter rules, please share them!

Col Durnford Supporting Member of TMP06 Dec 2019 7:20 p.m. PST

Anyone actually get the "The book and the gun " download to work? The pdf link just seem to go in circles.

Col Durnford Supporting Member of TMP07 Dec 2019 9:12 a.m. PST

Found it with Google.



coopman07 Dec 2019 7:28 p.m. PST

You might want to take a look at "Fireteam: Modern" by Rory Crabb. It looks like a good set of rules.

Uparmored07 Jan 2020 4:53 a.m. PST

I took The Sword, The Flame, Machineguns and Grenades and made tables for cold war weapons. I used em in my 1/6th outdoor games. Works well outdoors where you want fast play rules with a good feel.


Here's a screenshot of part of my NATO QRS:

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