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"Less than 5 figures or more than 50 ?" Topic


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764 hits since 28 Nov 2019
©1994-2020 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP28 Nov 2019 2:30 a.m. PST

Hello everyone,

But what would it change if in George Gush's Renaissance rules, the units had less than 5 figures or more than 50?

Thank you

Ogdenlulimus28 Nov 2019 3:19 a.m. PST

Nothing. Its the morale calculations in the game that age one prematurely!

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP28 Nov 2019 3:52 a.m. PST

Anyone can tweak any rule set in any way they like. What the OP suggests is something that could only interest the one tweaking.

It's interesting that the FoG;Renaissance rules doesn't mention figure scale. It's so passe & the Gush rules show their age here.

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP28 Nov 2019 5:18 a.m. PST

Bought those rules many many years ago. Read through
them and decided not my cuppa. Still in the house
somewhere…

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP28 Nov 2019 5:21 a.m. PST

I do not like to modify the rules too much but with this one which dates from 1976, it should pass …

For me the scales at all levels are necessary in a rule.

Stoppage28 Nov 2019 6:57 a.m. PST

@Paskal

The Gush rules are perfectly good for a starter with small battles.

By memory you use the number of firing figures and ranks to calculate shooting casualties – which are given in men – take one figure off table for every 20 casualty men.

To speed things up we used to use 20-sided dice to see if an actual figure had been knocked out (rather than keep a written tally).

Melees are worked out using number of figures in contact and ranks. Which means actual table frontages are important.

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP28 Nov 2019 8:33 a.m. PST

The Gush rules are perfectly adequate. It is we who have too little time and patience to appreciate them. still expect a men/figure ratio for a rule set to be rational.

khanscom28 Nov 2019 2:19 p.m. PST

From the Renaissance rules 2nd Edition, I(5): "Troops must be formed into units of from 5 figures… upwards…". There appears to be no upper limit to a unit's size other than practicality.

Where the unit is smaller than 5 figures you may find the problem in the Reaction Tests; there are + and – modifiers for friendly and enemy units within 150 paces, in sight, advancing, retiring or routing. This can obviously give an advantage to small units if they are not retiring.

I recall reading about a similar issue with an early edition of WRG Ancients when a competition player chose to build a large number of 1- figure "units" (paying a lot for command points) but presented such a large (in numbers of units) army that his opponent was virtually unable to advance against it. Future editions included the 5- figure minimum limits.

The practical problem of issuing orders and recording unit casualties for a large number of small units would deter me regardless.

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP28 Nov 2019 11:26 p.m. PST

@ Stoppage:

You write "The Gush rules are perfectly good for a starter with small battles.

"But we can also do very big battles with.

You also write"To speed things up we used to use 20-sided dice to see if an actual figure had been knocked out (rather than keep a written tally)."

Do you want to speak to remember the losses rather than write them on a piece of paper? So, one die per unit …

Very good idea.

@ Shagnasty:

Completely agree with you, this rule is a safe bet.

If I found a system for antique war chariots we could even play the ancient period with.

@ khanscom:

Congratulations for your very precise explanations and understandable to me.

Indeed we can have more than 50 figures per unit I confused with a French rule (Kadesh)or it is forbidden.

So we could have only one unit in his army?

Stoppage02 Dec 2019 2:15 a.m. PST

To speed things up we used to use 20-sided dice to see if an actual figure had been knocked out (rather than keep a written tally)

If enemy scored four hits then you'd have to throw five or over on the 20-sided dice to keep the figure.

We removed figures during play (units were based with two singles, pairs, and threes in one rank).

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP03 Dec 2019 2:58 a.m. PST

@ Stoppage :

Super funny and fast as a system !

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP11 Jan 2020 5:43 a.m. PST

In the "The George Gush's Renaissance Rules" one foot or mounted figure on the table represents 20 real men (3 ranks in 6/7 files?); one wagon, field piece or elephant model approximately 5. And one Inch on the table top represents 10 paces when using 20-25-28 and 30 mm figures …

Ok but if I want a figurine to represent 100 men, one wagon, field piece or elephant model approximately 25, I decrease by 5 the movement distances and the ranges of shots since then when using 20-25-28 and 30 mm figures one Inch on the table top represents 50 paces …

But what are the other changes to make? The sizes of the bases of the figurines? But what does it give?

Thanks for your help

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