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"Modern AFV Armor Thickness & Gun Penetration Data" Topic


20 Posts

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565 hits since 26 Nov 2019
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Comments or corrections?

Lee49426 Nov 2019 9:30 p.m. PST

Is there a single "best" source for ACCURATE modern tank armor basis (thickness) and main gun penetration data? I've found a couple of sources but they are not comprehensive and frankly the data seem all over the place. With much of this info probably classified I am wondering how much is guess work by some sources? THANKS! Happy Thanksgiving! Lee

TGerritsen Supporting Member of TMP26 Nov 2019 9:59 p.m. PST

Not anything accurate without a security clearance.

55th Division27 Nov 2019 1:13 a.m. PST

Nice try Tovarisch do your spying the old fashioned way

Legion 427 Nov 2019 5:28 a.m. PST

huh?

lkmjbc327 Nov 2019 7:16 a.m. PST

The best source I have found is the computer game "Steel Beasts". The team that worked on the game is stellar.

It was also multinational. At least one of the team members was Russia with experience with Soviet tanks. They also worked with a number of non-Russians that served on T72s.

On the old Armor board, Tank-net.org one of the guys attempted a translation of the values to modern miniatures rules. I haven't participated on that board in years. I don't know if it is still around.

The authors of FFT also worked with these guys for the values in their rules.

So, there is your place to start.

Joe Collins

Sundance27 Nov 2019 7:42 a.m. PST

The problem with modern ballistics and pentration data is there are many more variables than were were in WWII – types of steel used, reactive armor, spacing, types of rounds available, etc. You have to get very nitpicky to understand what you're looking at.

Wolfhag27 Nov 2019 8:03 a.m. PST

Lee,
You've asked one of the toughest questions for modern armor warfare.

I think the main issue is what exactly is the armor that the warhead is attempting to penetrate and what type of warhead is it? Most modern MBT are using some type of composite armor which I think can be customized.

My suggestion is to review "Armor Technology" by Paul Lakowski and design something playable that you feel reflects what happens historically.

Link: link

Even without penetration, if you look at videos of ATGM impacts that the hit should most likely be at least a mission kill.

I think that the real solutions are the hard-kill technology to defeat ATGM's. Is there any way to really defeat top attack ATGM's?

Lee, are you all moved in yet?

Wolfhag

Legion 427 Nov 2019 8:21 a.m. PST

Sundance & Wolf +1

Wolfhag27 Nov 2019 8:22 a.m. PST

Steel Beasts is a good place to start:
link

Wolfhag

Mobius27 Nov 2019 9:15 a.m. PST

How to decide? This was also found for the same tank.

picture

Pan Marek27 Nov 2019 9:25 a.m. PST

OMG. That graphic. There's going to be some "abstraction" in any rules one comes up with.

Mobius27 Nov 2019 10:33 a.m. PST

I thought the lower front plate angle of the T-54, T-55 and T-62 was 55 degrees compared to the upper front plate which was at 60 degree.

emckinney27 Nov 2019 11:05 a.m. PST

Why are top-attack ATGMs hard to stop?

zardoz1957 Supporting Member of TMP27 Nov 2019 9:23 p.m. PST

Thin armor

Wolfhag28 Nov 2019 2:01 a.m. PST

Ethan,
Here is why: YouTube link

TOW 2B operates in a 'flyover shoot down' top attack mode with two tantalum explosively formed penetrator (EFP) warheads. Being hull/turret down is no protection.

Wolfhag

Mobius28 Nov 2019 7:00 a.m. PST

Did they fill the T-72 with cordite?

Legion 428 Nov 2019 7:48 a.m. PST

Wolf +1 Tops/decks of AFVs normally have thinner armor. A TOW2B would punch thru that thinner armor pretty effectively …

And we have seen footage of SDF using US TOWs[not sure what version(s)?] taking out Syrian T-72s fairly easily.

We also have seen ISIS AT weapons[not sure of what type?] KO'ing Turkish LEOs [current version] without to much trouble either.

Fight combined arms or suffer the losses …

Lion in the Stars30 Nov 2019 1:26 p.m. PST

Did they fill the T-72 with cordite?

Nah, that's the stored ammunition cooking off. The Soviets didn't do massively-protected ammo like the Abrams has before the T14.

Wolfhag30 Nov 2019 2:07 p.m. PST

The ammo is at the bottom of the hull in a carousel under the turret. That's exactly where the EFP went.

However, if this is a manufacturer's video maybe Mobius is right, they loaded it up for the effect.

Wolfhag

Legion 401 Dec 2019 8:10 a.m. PST

Marketing at it's best !

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