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"What is the most “REALISTIC”..." Topic

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Paskal Supporting Member of TMP22 Nov 2019 6:52 a.m. PST

Hello all,

In your opinion, what is the most "REALISTIC" rule for playing the Thirty Years War with 28mm figs?

Thank you all.

Pan Marek22 Nov 2019 7:10 a.m. PST

Good question. I look forward to the discussion. My experience playing "pike and shot" games suggests that it is
perhaps the hardest period to model.
How does one convincingly deal with a unit comprised of both pike and shot? When attack was imminent, the shot would retreat behind the pike. For the attacker, the key was to hit the unit before such was successfully done.
But our table top units don't move around like that.
I've not played the period enough to make a rules suggestion.
But the games I've played abstract all of this quite a bit. I'm not sure it can be done any other way.

Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP22 Nov 2019 7:56 a.m. PST

The further you go from mid 18th century the harder it gets to have "easy" reliable detailed facts to be safely treading the "realistic" path. Mr Swede "Horn reincarnated", who promised a book et. S, said so and you got to read those languages and German in ancient way (my Granddad was able …) and so on. Not for the faint-hearted and only for those that can afford it. This said you do have a lot, and some people have got bits that go ahead, many old rehashed fallacies being now discredited.Not that all rules writers have noticed it ;)
I tried (still processing but pushed back by other projects and lack of players) and so far I like Baroque. But did not actually read some others. It all depends if you want a battle or a grand skirmish. the more detailed, tactical it goes (as often) the more unsure of the details we get.
At lower levels, By Fire and Sword goes down in detail, well done. Between now and the next century they might release a purely 30YW version. i've read of an ECW one coming.

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP22 Nov 2019 9:19 a.m. PST

Hard,hard !

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP22 Nov 2019 10:17 a.m. PST

I have always enjoyed George Gush's Renaissance Rules.

Davidjames22 Nov 2019 11:01 a.m. PST

Depends how you think they fought.

mad monkey 122 Nov 2019 11:02 a.m. PST

By Fire and Sword looks good. But for ease of play take a look at Liber Militum: Tercios.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP22 Nov 2019 2:28 p.m. PST

Define "realistic".

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP23 Nov 2019 9:44 a.m. PST

@ Ochoin:

Define "realistic"? I know, we can not know because we were not there but you understood me very well.

To others :


Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP23 Nov 2019 12:29 p.m. PST

but you understood me very well.

No I don't. How can we know something you seem to claim is not knowable?

IMO realism is a chimera.

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP24 Nov 2019 3:24 a.m. PST

Enough of "blah blah blah", in a rule of wargame, what is realistic is what does not seem unrealistic to you.

Personal logo ochoin Supporting Member of TMP24 Nov 2019 10:58 a.m. PST

Please try to keep it civil.

Defining your terms is the beginning of wisdom.

As we're clearly talking about people's perceptions, there are no clear demarcations between the 'Real" & the "Unreal".

Dr Phibes24 Nov 2019 11:04 a.m. PST

Looking for opinions. What is the most "REALISTIC" rules for playing the Thirty Years War?

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP24 Nov 2019 10:37 p.m. PST


Yes the George Gush's Renaissance Rules is still much played including for the WOTR …

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP25 Nov 2019 8:52 a.m. PST

Very good to know Paskal. Thanks.

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP25 Nov 2019 9:51 a.m. PST

Nothing beats the old rules.

Stoppage28 Nov 2019 3:37 p.m. PST

Was thinking of Father Tilly…



Then googled to get this:

TMP link

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP28 Nov 2019 11:44 p.m. PST

@ Stoppage :

Thank you.I thought there was more about this war ?

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