"Replacement for Dragon Rampant?" Topic

Looking for a fantasy rule set to replace Dragon Rampant. DR is fun but very gamey and too luck driven. Not really suited to multi-player. Looking for something of about the same scope and complexity but more tactics driven.

Suggestions?

I often point out- to my buddies- that between us we have over 100 years of gaming experience (more like 200+).
If a rule set is kinda close to what we want, we should be able to tinker with it.
This usually applies to a certain type of club, I understand the need for conventions when playing certain gamers.
So, Extra, I'd suggest adding random card element to the game. Spells that may apply to, effect, or be cast by certain races. Double moves. Hidden objectives.
If that doesn't work, add beer. 🤪😜🍾🎉

Frostrgrave?

Saga Age of Magic? Just bought it, looks pretty darn good.

I really like Kings of War, but have a feeling you've already rejected that one…

Mike

What about Advanced Song and Blades of Heroes, using the optional warband rules that would in effect mimic the Rampant series of rules. ASABH is small skirmish otherwise, as you likely know, but it can be played a little differently using figures with the Leader trait and warbands.

@SillyPoint: Yup. Currently thinking of writing a variant. Basically replacing the activation mechanic with a system from my Border Reiver rules, using action points instead of the dice. And making the morale rules a lot more sensible. But keeping what we like – fast combat, army builder system, light touch magic.

Saga is out.

I'll look at Kings of War, but I thought that was more mass battle rules?

SBoH is another I'll have to revisit though I wonder if it's activation mechanic might have similar problems.

Kings of War is mass battle, but I always thought of the DR series as being mass battle anyway – they aren't really skirmish as everything is in a unit…

Mike

A quick look at KoW and I can see it requires more figures than we have. Even smaller mounted units are 10 figures and we are mostly 6s. DR armies end up being just 2-3 units at best in KoW.

Over my coffee I threw together a DR variant using my Border Reivers activation system.

Anyone wants a copy let me know, mark@scalecreep.com

It's a quick and dirty outline but should be enough to get you going.

I use KOW for Lord of the Rings with War of the Ring sized movement trays so 8 figures to a Regiment.

The units size doesn't matter as long as you define what it what for Troop, Regiment, Horde, etc – the unit stays on the table until it breaks anyway and you simply mark hits.

I like it because it is fast, easy to play and has surprising tactical depth for such a simple system.

Mike

What about building the new activation mechanic on one of the later variants of the "Rampant" game, such as Rebels and Patriots? The later rules versions provide some "free" actions that don't need rolls to perform, and the turn doesn't end if a player botches an activation roll – every unit at least gets a try every turn.

Reading between the lines, it seems like a lot of Lion Rampant/Dragon Rampant players had similar disappointment with the randomness of the original activation system- it seems to be the most changed aspect in the later rules versions. My own experience was that the old activation system was a bit too random. A player could be strategic about activations by doing the easiest ones first, but the probability curve still meant it was very hard to carry out a plan…

All sorts of other activation mechanisms would potentially work, though. At the moment I'm infatuated with the card based activation used in Fistful of Lead games. I could see that working really well for Dragon Rampant.

I'm interested to hear which direction you decide on going.

I've seen a ton of house rules variants for the activation system and have played full on six player games without much issue. Pick a variant you like or come up with one you like if you like the core mechanics. Otherwise there is Open Combat, which is a nice skirmish set.

I'm ditching activations in favor of action points.

Warlords of Erewhon may be worth a look. Bit pricey however.

We had too many Lion Rampant games where one player activated everything every turn, and the other player activated nothing or only 1 or 2 units. The later games in the series improved on this a bit.
Why is Saga Age of Magic not acceptable?

Hey Exta Crispy, take a look at Men of Bronze from Osprey. It's heavily inspired by Rampant rules, but has an interesting command system, with points (called Arete within the rules) used to activate units, steal initiative from your opponent or activate special abilities. Otherwise the ruleset is rather poorly written and not much playtested methinks, so I do not suggest you replace DR with it. But since you think of rewriting the rules anyway, that command system might be useful.
I plan on doing so sometime in the future, to allow for big battles in Rampant games.

Also, stay away from Warlords of Erewhon. It's so bland it would give Gordon Ramsey a seisure.

I too am sick of activating nothing for two rounds. I one simply deleted the rule that a failed activation ends the turn are wild charge units weakened?

How about a simple card draw system for activations?

The whole Rampant system seemed interesting but lacking playtest and development not uncommon for Ospery games.

We are working on a medieval skirmish system (basically because we want to do something with our Song of Ice and Fire miniatures – nice figs strange system).

Its bound to end up having some fantasy elements.

For now I would consider modifying the Blood & Plunder base mechanics.

Thomas J. Thomas
Fame & Glory Games