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"Update from Sergeants 3 on PayPal dispute with customer" Topic

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Liliburlero Supporting Member of TMP27 Oct 2019 11:23 a.m. PST

I was able to speak on the phone with PayPal last evening for about 45 minutes. There is nothing they can do as the buyer's financial institution has to release payment with their reason being "Other". PayPal has a list of reasons for disputes/non-payment but "Other" is what was given. PayPal is as baffled as I am but they cannot do anything. As I told them, I am out $276 USD as well as 17 rule books. To me, this is theft.

I had anticipated this response from PayPal so already planned on filing online complaints for Mail Fraud with the USPS who takes these complaints seriously. I didn't know it was considered a felony so we'll see what happens.

Thievery must pay well as I'm sure this buyer doesn't confine this practice to just his hobby. When I mentioned this possibility to PayPal, they said credit card companies only allow so many disputes charge/backs per a customer. I asked what if the customer has more than one credit card; I don't think that occurred to them. PayPal was also surprised when I mentioned I would be filing a complaint with the USPS for mail fraud.

I want to be careful in warning other sellers in our hobby but I'll just say that in my opinion, this guy is a thief. He is henceforth known in our home as The Thief of Chicago (a nice take on The Thief of Baghdad, don't you think?) a nod to the cinematic history of TSATF.

Thanks for everyone's help, support and input in this very upsetting incident.

Liliburlero Supporting Member of TMP27 Oct 2019 2:56 p.m. PST

Addendum to above:

The package was shipped via Priority with delivery confirmation that shows date, time and address. Also the option of "Order never received" was not chosen and reported to PayPal; "other" was the reason.

Col Durnford Supporting Member of TMP27 Oct 2019 3:17 p.m. PST

Sure wish there was more detail. It sounds very strange.

Please keep us informed.

coopman27 Oct 2019 3:36 p.m. PST

I would mail the customer an invoice.

RudyNelson27 Oct 2019 7:54 p.m. PST

Contact the local stores or hobby groups like Hmgs-great lakes and see if the know the guy. That is a lot of product to be out. Somebody plays with him and should chastise them.

RudyNelson27 Oct 2019 7:55 p.m. PST

I no longer use PayPal but the square app. And I have not had a bad transaction since going to it.

Fitzovich28 Oct 2019 2:45 a.m. PST

RudyNelson that is good to hear. We use the square app at a nonprofit historic preservation group where I volunteer and I will pass along your comments to them regarding that. Worst we have had was some connection issues from time to time.

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP28 Oct 2019 9:28 a.m. PST

Square is a great 'pay' system. We
have used it for several years in the antique business
when selling at street fairs and similar events.

Like Rudy, have never had a problem.

Liliburlero Supporting Member of TMP29 Oct 2019 9:54 a.m. PST

Two complaints to different departments have been filed with the USPS for Mail Fraud, they've been acknowledged so now it's wait and see.  Many thanks again to everyone here on TMP for all of their help.

And to respond to Rudy and Ed above about Square, I used it at Historicon several years ago. I found it more expensive per transaction and not very user-friendly.  We've been using PayPal on our site for 15 years and this is the first time we've ever had a problem.  In all this time, we only had 2 other disputes with customers and both were resolved with emails/phone calls.  This is what is so puzzling about this incident; we heard nothing from the customer after emailing an acknowledgement and a "your order has shipped". 

Also in 20 years of selling TSATF we've only had 3 bad checks……… 

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP30 Oct 2019 2:40 a.m. PST

You might check into bank fraud too, since it seems like Paypal is violating their own policy, if you can show "proof of delivery" to the customer.

In that case, even according to Paypal's terms, I think you are supposed to get the money for the products delivered.

They've had you sign a dispute resolution agreement though, which will heavily favor them, since they employ the "judges", so my guess is your only resolution will be with getting assistance from a government organization, and shining more light on this, rather than their one sided "mediation" process that will be totally in their favor.

Of course, "proof of delivery" by the post office can also be subject to major issues, if a signature isn't required from the recipient.

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