"Napoleon Thought Talleyrand Was a Scumbag" Topic
14 Posts
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Tango01 | 19 Oct 2019 3:47 p.m. PST |
"One of the most influential diplomats of the era, Talleyrand was described by Napoleon Bonaparte as "a piece of dung in a silk stocking''. He was a friend of all and a friend of none and was in constant contact with all sides and factions during one of Europe's most tumultuous periods. Throughout, his secret relations with the deposed Bourbons and Allies kept him well informed of the prevailing political winds on the Continent." Main page link The worst one … with the Ragusa traitor too… Amicalement Armand
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ConnaughtRanger | 19 Oct 2019 4:22 p.m. PST |
The feeling was possibly mutual? Brechtel198 will doubtless tell me otherwise – in a minimum of 23 posts. |
SHaT1984 | 19 Oct 2019 4:49 p.m. PST |
Yep, no news here….. oh my… You only have to read about his 'proclivities' to know that,, as much a Russian dupe as the Cambridge Five___ d |
Stoppage | 19 Oct 2019 5:17 p.m. PST |
@stat The Proclivities that you wwn, Are as wind In the nostrils Of the cognoscenti unheard, unappreciated By The Morasse |
Stoppage | 19 Oct 2019 5:20 p.m. PST |
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4th Cuirassier | 20 Oct 2019 2:04 a.m. PST |
Didn't Talleyrand predict, on Napoleon's return in 1815, that he'd win two or three battles but then it would be 1814 all over again? |
von Winterfeldt | 20 Oct 2019 3:17 a.m. PST |
most likely a mutual thinking |
Cerdic | 20 Oct 2019 5:01 a.m. PST |
Stoppage – ok, I'm intrigued. This is about the third different thread that I've seen you addressing mysterious poemy-type stuff to SHaT1984. Is it some sort of spy thing…? |
Art | 20 Oct 2019 6:17 a.m. PST |
G'Day Cerdic Perhaps it's because Stoppage also knows who "shat 1984" really is as well… It's not hard to susse out… Best Regards Art |
Brechtel198 | 20 Oct 2019 10:15 a.m. PST |
'Talleyrand was sacked by Napoleon in 1807 for the same reason Bourrienne was sacked: rapacity. Thereafter Talleyrand worked for the Bourbons' return, accepting heavy bribes from both the Austrian and Russian Governments. He once said that man has been given eyes in the front of his head, so that he can look forward, not back, and when he came to write his Memoirs between 1811 and 1816 Talleyrand certainly had an eye on his future career. Their main theme is that ever since the Revolution he had been working for the Bourbons, and their latest editor, Paul Leon, does not hesitate to term them 'a political maneuver.' 'Talleyrand's treatment of the Duc d'Enghien's execution is a revealing example of how historical fact becomes distorted for political motives into the myth of Memoirs. Talleyrand, we know, encouraged Napoleon to seize the Duke, even though he resided on German soil, and on 8 March 1804 wrote to Napoleon: 'The men of Fructidor are plotting with the Vendeeans. A Bourbon prince is directing them. They intend to assassinate you. You have a right to defend yourself. Justice must inflict rigorous punishment, and no one must be spared.' In 1814, just before the Bourbons entered Paris, Talleyrand destroyed all documents incriminating him in the Duke's execution. In his Memoirs he was therefore free to perpetuate a lie: that he had done all he could to dissuade Napoleon. 'This murder,' he writes, 'could be neither excused nor pardoned. It never has been.' 'But these distorted Memoirs have been even further distorted. They were written up, after Talleyrand's death, by Bacourt, under the direction of Talleyrand's niece, the Duchesse de Dino, who was determined to present her uncle in the most favorable possible light. Lacour-gayet found parts of Talleyrand's original manuscript (most of it has disappeared) and compared them with Bacourt's text, as published in 1891-92. The comparison revealed a number of fundamental changes. For example, Bacourt adds no less than 32 lines to the interview at Nantes in which Spanish affairs were discussed. He presents Talleyrand-who had urged Napoleon to dethrone the Bourbons of Spain-as a champion of the Spanish King, concerned to right the wrongs done to the Spanish dynasty, and he is even depicted overwhelming Napoleon with injurious reproaches.'-Vincent Cronin. As to Napoleon's supposed remark to Talleyrand, I have seen it attributed to Lannes-which is much more believable considering Lannes' personality. |
deadhead | 20 Oct 2019 11:20 a.m. PST |
What precisely is the definition of a scumbag anyway? What is its possible function? I appreciate that, as Wellington would have it, his infantry were the scum of the earth (OK I know the next bit too, as his excuse). But it always strikes me that the scum rises to the top. It should be a "sedimentbag" if to be truly pejorative, but that does not have the same ring I do admit. All a bit like the old warning about drinking milk from potentially scrofulous cows, in less temperate climes. If the white rises to the top, it is cream. If it sinks to the bottom it is bovine tuberculous pus. |
Silurian | 20 Oct 2019 11:48 a.m. PST |
This has piqued my interest in Talleyrand. What do you guys recommend as a good, balanced biography? Thanks |
Tango01 | 20 Oct 2019 3:34 p.m. PST |
Satan memories…. (smile) Amicalement Armand |
La Fleche | 20 Oct 2019 8:07 p.m. PST |
Tallyrand was for Tallyrand first and foremost; Freemason and Bavarian Illuminist second; faithful supporter of the Bourbons and a French patriot, not one whit. |
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