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"Caen 1944" Topic


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WARGAMESBUFF11 Oct 2019 12:52 p.m. PST

General Omar Bradley said that the British 3rd Division had the hardest job to do on D-Day.
the 3rd had to fight off the beaches, through built up area house to house, through boggy ground to take the festung that was Hillman, through a forest and into the city, but 21st Panzer Division got in the way.
Caen eventually though did fall to the allies.
Does it though seem odd that St Lo which was also to be taken on D-Day fell at the same time as Caen but this never gets a mention, its alwasy the Brits were late? I wonder why that is?

WARGAMESBUFF11 Oct 2019 12:52 p.m. PST

General Omar Bradley said that the British 3rd Division had the hardest job to do on D-Day.
the 3rd had to fight off the beaches, through built up area house to house, through boggy ground to take the festung that was Hillman, through a forest and into the city, but 21st Panzer Division got in the way.
Caen eventually though did fall to the allies.
Does it though seem odd that St Lo which was also to be taken on D-Day fell at the same time as Caen but this never gets a mention, its alwasy the Brits were late? I wonder why that is?

Marcus Brutus11 Oct 2019 1:46 p.m. PST

What division was supposed to take St. Lo on day 1? In looking over the plans for Utah and Omaha Beaches I don't see any mention of St. Lo.

Old Contemptible11 Oct 2019 1:51 p.m. PST

The plan called for the Americans to take St. Lo. on D+9. The British were to take Caen on D-Day. But the plan didn't work out that way. The Germans had other plans.

mkenny11 Oct 2019 8:37 p.m. PST

Very few D-Day objectives were taken by anyone.

Redblack11 Oct 2019 8:58 p.m. PST

The original plans called for Paris to be taken by mid Setember I reality it was liberated a month earlier

The war ended 11 months after Dday so someone must have been doing something right.

HappyHussar11 Oct 2019 9:48 p.m. PST

All propoganda, Redblack … WW2 is still raging ROFL

WARGAMESBUFF12 Oct 2019 4:32 a.m. PST

The Youtube on 29th Divison says it was and objective on D 1 the inter view with the offciers.

Not everything was written down and thats a big issues when items come up that are not documented.

9 days to advance 42kms thats rate of advance only 4 and a bit kilometres per day, that doesnt make sense when its as key as Caen.

deephorse12 Oct 2019 5:44 a.m. PST

There are several Youtube videos on the 29th. To save us having to watch all of them perhaps you could provide a link to the one that contains this claim. The first one I watched made no such assertion.

As the crow flies Saint-Lo is about 32km inland of Omaha Beach. 42km by road I assume from your post. No-one is going to have such a distant place as an objective on the first day of a contested landing short of paratroopers or glider forces. And how long could they hold it for assuming such a landing was carried out?

Starfury Rider12 Oct 2019 6:45 a.m. PST

link

"Plan for Movement to Inland Objectives

As the landing schedule clearly shows, the two assault regimental combat teams were expected to break through the beach defenses within the first two hours after touchdown. The enemy strongpoints protecting the exit draws were to be neutralized early enough to permit their opening for traffic off the beach by H+3 hours. After reducing beach defenses in their allotted ones, the companies in the assault battalion landing teams were to make their way to battalion assembly areas, ordinarily about a thousand yards inland. From there on, the battalions would operate toward assigned missions inland (Map No. IV).

In the 16th RCT zone, the 2d BLT had the mission of seizing Colleville, then fanning out beyond and holding the high ground just south of that village so as to cover later landings against possible enemy counterattack from Trévières or Bayeux. The 3d BLT, once on the plateau, was to turn east and reduce the enemy defenses along the bluff as far as Ste-Honorine-des-Pertes; then, to cover the eastern flank of the division, along the army boundary, by occupying the high ground as far as Mount Cauvin. The 1st BLT, in support during the beach assault, would move through the 2d Battalion, capture Formigny on the main highway, occupy the high ground overlooking Trévières and the Aure Valley near that village, and secure the river bridges near Trévières Positions for all-around defense against possible enemy counterattack were to be secured and organized by all battalions.

Of the other 1st Division units, the 18th RCT, assembling under cover of the advance made by the 16th RCT, would move across the Aure southeast of Colleville and occupy the high ground east of Trévières, patrolling to the D-Day phase line. The 26th RCT, loaded in Force "B" and landing when ordered by corps, would revert on landing to the 1st Division. Its mission was to seize and organize for defense the area south and southeast of Tour-en-Bessin, in contact toward Bayeux with 50 (British) Division.

On the western flank of the beachhead, 29th Division units had the mission of occupying the important area between the flooded Aure Valley and the sea. After capturing Vierville the 1st BLT would move west along the coastal highway, and together with the Rangers clear out enemy defenses from the beachhead to the Vire Estuary. It would be ready to seize Isigny and the important bridge there and to make contact with VII Corps to the west. The 2d BLT had St-Laurent as its first objective and then the higher ground southwest of that point. The 3d BLT landing in support was to move through Longueville, occupy the high ground 2,500 yards to the west, and prepare for advance toward Isigny. The 115th Infantry, landing in attachment to the 1st Division, would assist if necessary in mopping up the beach defenses in the one of either of the assault regimental combat teams. It would be prepared to move through Longueville to the la Cambe area, outpost the high ground south of the Aure, and patrol considerably to the south of the outposts. The 175th Infantry, in Force "B" and designated as corps reserve, was scheduled to land on D+1.

Artillery support would be given by five battalions of 105-mm howitzers landing in attachment to the regiments of the 1st Division, two each to the assault RCT's. These battalions were to move inland with the advance. Additional fire support would be rendered by the heavier guns of the Navy, directed by the fire control parties with the infantry battalions.

If successful, this plan put V Corps in position to advance on D+1 south beyond the Aure toward the key high ground in the Cerisy Forest area, and west through Isigny toward a junction with VII Corps. Corps plans did not contemplate movement in force beyond the Vire, as it was hoped that the southward advance would compel an early enemy retreat from the area between the Vire and Carentan."

St-Lô does not appear in that extensive list of objectives for D-Day itself. Given the mammoth amount of preparation that went into the assault landing operation, I can find no credence in the suggestion that a major objective for one of the assault formations was not 'written down' somewhere.

Gary

deephorse14 Oct 2019 7:09 a.m. PST

Could still do with that link WARGAMESBUFF.

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