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"Fall In 2019 Dates" Topic


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Comments or corrections?

syracusepops05 Oct 2019 7:14 a.m. PST

When you click on the Fall In website, the dates listed are November 15th-17th.When you go to register, that page says the dates for the convention are 11/7-11/10.

On the important Dates page of the Fall in website, it states the convention is Nov. 15th-17th 2019. Looking on the same page to the right it states under the calendar tab that the dates for Fall In are 11/7-11/10 2019.

Which one is correct? Because I have hotel reservations for the 15th-17th

TheKing3005 Oct 2019 7:43 a.m. PST

I just checked the HMGS website. It's the 15th – 17th.

syracusepops05 Oct 2019 7:56 a.m. PST

That's my point. The Fall In page of the HMGS website says 2 different sets of dates for the convention. And on multiple pages. Conflicting information is shown on multiple pages.

Just want to make sure the 7-10 2019 is the mistake and the 15-17 2019 is correct. And not the other way around

syracusepops05 Oct 2019 9:41 a.m. PST

Correct dates are now updated. I hope everyone had the 15-17 2019

DaleWill Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2019 7:34 p.m. PST

Syracusepops:

Are you located in Syracuse?

Dale

syracusepops06 Oct 2019 8:19 p.m. PST

I used to be. I now live outside nyc

TSD10107 Oct 2019 8:33 a.m. PST

When will GMs be added to the event registration? Its been open for days now and they have not registered me for Fall In.

Pyrrhic Victory07 Oct 2019 9:58 a.m. PST

I gave up and paid for admission just to make sure I got into the games I wanted. My faith in HMGS is low…

TSD10107 Oct 2019 12:07 p.m. PST

A few hours after I post they added me. Queue conspiracy theory.

Grumble8710607 Oct 2019 12:54 p.m. PST

Got my GM confirmation today.

historygamer09 Oct 2019 6:05 a.m. PST

So is the PEL ever updated, or is it just posted once and done? Just curious if I should be looking at it as time goes by.

Bowman09 Oct 2019 10:48 a.m. PST

I assume they need sufficient lead time for the printers.

historygamer10 Oct 2019 5:31 a.m. PST

I meant the online PEL. I'm not saying they should, just curious if it gets updated as more games register after the initial deadline.

I downloaded and did a search and again, I am just amazed at the lack of games using what I understand to be the most popular rules for their time periods. I can't help but wonder if that affects attendance. I know I was specifically looking to play in games using certain rules.

Bowman10 Oct 2019 6:56 a.m. PST

I am just amazed at the lack of games using what I understand to be the most popular rules for their time periods. I can't help but wonder if that affects attendance. I know I was specifically looking to play in games using certain rules.

We've had this discussion before. My take is that popular rule sets that make for great games amongst veteran players aren't necessarily the best convention games, which may have players totally unfamiliar with them. And a lot of times a GM will streamline and modify the rules to expedite play anyway.

I won an award at Historicon for a Japanese Samurai game I put on. I did not use my preferred rules and instead went with slightly more simplistic rules. The rules I chose not to play are by far more common and popular.

Just my 3 cents Canadian.

historygamer23 Oct 2019 11:27 a.m. PST

Bowman:

I wanted to continue our friendly discussion here, if you don't mind.

"My take is that popular rule sets that make for great games amongst veteran players aren't necessarily the best convention games, which may have players totally unfamiliar with them."

Good point, but isn't it the goal of HMGS and the con to promote wargaming, and further, isn't it more likely that a wargame convention attracts a majority of experienced and veteran players, as opposed to a majority of novices off the street? My own experience is that I was looking at the PEL hoping to learn some of said rules, only to find a lot of homebrewed rules, that while entertaining for a few hours, leave me with nothing to take home and pass on. But, as a GM myself, I do get your point.

"And a lot of times a GM will streamline and modify the rules to expedite play anyway."

Even better, as then people perhaps learn some new ideas on rules they already play, or what to purchase and learn. When using home brewed rules, not much, other than a few hours well passed, is accomplished. That also doesn't promote the hobby in any meaningful way either.

"I won an award at Historicon for a Japanese Samurai game I put on."

And well deserved, I am sure. Congrats to you.

"I did not use my preferred rules and instead went with slightly more simplistic rules."

Only slightly? Perhaps not much gained then.

"rules I chose not to play are by far more common and popular."

So if you had used those more popular rules, wouldn't you have perhaps attracted experienced gamers, or people wanting to learn how to play the more popular rule set?

Years ago I watched an AWI game using British Grenadier rules. I was able to then go home and read the rules and have a much greater understanding of them, something I might not have done on my own.

I'm not saying I don't get your points, and perhaps have been guilty of doing them myself. But in my look at the PEL, I find it surprising how few poplar rules are being used, especially in the more popular periods of ACW and WWII. I just can't wonder if HMGS isn't losing out on attendees with so many homebrew or quick sets of rules being played at the con.

Please note, I enjoy this discussion with you, that also has the added benefit of putting a FI! thread back into the mix a topic that has sorely been missing with only three weekends out from this con. ;-)

Grumble8710623 Oct 2019 1:23 p.m. PST

At Fall-In! 2019, I plan to put on a game using a rules set that has continued over the years to be popular -- Command Decision -- with a WW2 desert (theme game) setting.

I also plan to put on a game with a rules set from the same author(s) that didn't ever take off in quite the same way -- Men Under Fire. Despite its relative lack of popularity, I and others continue to put on games derived from this rules set, albeit with some changes and introducing periods different from WW2: WW1 desert (theme game) setting in my case; modern, dark ages, and ACW in the case of others over the years.

historygamer24 Oct 2019 6:06 a.m. PST

I just find it really odd that there are no, or almost no games being run using: Johnny Reb (pick your version), Regimental Fire and Fury, Brigade Fire and Fury, Guns at Gettysburg, Pickett's Charge, Battleground, etc., etc. These are rule sets people talk about on TMP, and play in their groups back home.

One of the values (I would think) of going to a wargame convention would be to learn new rules, and/or play old favorite rules. I, for one, was looking to learn and play some of these popular rules, but they just aren't there, or are a one-off. I just find that… odd.

TSD10124 Oct 2019 11:11 a.m. PST

I just find it really odd that there are no, or almost no games being run using: Johnny Reb (pick your version)

Corzin and Yellow Worm Gaming Society will be running a Johnny Reb v3 scenario Friday 10 AM (our usual time slot)

historygamer24 Oct 2019 12:24 p.m. PST

Right. That's why I said, "there are no, or almost no games being run using…"

I think that was the only JR game I found in the PEL.

TheKing3024 Oct 2019 2:17 p.m. PST

the Johnny Reb game sounds interesting. That's under the "always wanted to play it but never found the time". I found my copy of Johnny Reb that I ordered over 20+ years ago – still in the envelope.

TSD10124 Oct 2019 2:25 p.m. PST

That's under the "always wanted to play it but never found the time".
Larry is a good GM, feel free to stop by and learn the rules.

Bowman24 Oct 2019 6:39 p.m. PST

HG

Thanks for the response.

I wanted to continue our friendly discussion here, if you don't mind.

I thought that's what I was doing.

The goal of the con is indeed to promote wargaming. I don't think that necessitates having the games using the most popular rules available. But I agree with home brew rules. Sometimes I've played well know games that the GM tweaked quite a bit with home brew additions. If they were good (and often they are) I'll ask the GM for a copy.

What I gained from using slightly simpler rules was players who didn't need much intervention from me after turn one and could concentrate on the tactics of the game and fulfilling their individual objectives.

In the other game, using the more complex rules, the players needed constant hand holding from one of the two GMs. I didn't because I had played before. They still needed one of the GMs to calculate all the die rolls modifications for combat 6 turns in. Don't get me wrong, it was a beautiful game, wonderful co-players and excellent veteran GMs. It also won a PELA and deservedly so. I just wanted my players to be more independent of me. I thought that gained plenty.

I don't know how popular Ronin is as a game but the only experienced Ronin player the game attracted was me. I played in a Test of Honour game, which I believe is somewhat popular, and 8 people played in it. (Yes it was a big Samurai convention for me) Only two players had played 1 game before that. I was not one of them. I'm not sure established games draw the more experienced players.

I don't think simple, convention friendly games are stymying the conventions. I don't see the case for that. The game should be of the best visual appeal that the GM can muster, have rules that are not filled with charts and not be migraine inducing. They should minimize constant intervention from the GM. And lastly a bit of luck helps with the quality and attitudes of your co-players. I lucked out in every game I played in and the one I GMed. If the games look good, the players are having fun then that will promote the conventions. We've all walked by quiet tables where everyone has their heads buried in pages of charts and the figures are in exactly the same place 20 minutes earlier. That doesn't promote anything and may indicate the failings of some rules as good convention games.

I thought most 28mm skirmish WW2 games use the most popular rules: Bolt Action, Chain of Command, Cross Fire, IABSM. Are they not? Add What a Tanker to that list. There'd be more Bolt Action game if most of the players weren't in tournaments. I haven't checked the PEL so I could have that backward. Those may just be the games I notice so it could be good ol' confirmation bias on my part.

Sadly I may have to cancel my FI plans due to a medical condition. Dying young is for pussies, getting older is for the tough guys. Sometimes.

Disco Joe25 Oct 2019 9:26 a.m. PST

Maybe I am not looking properly but when going to the HMGS website and clicking on Fall In and then the exhibitor info it says Exhibitor List with nothing shown so my question is does anyone know when the list of exhibitors will be posted to the website?

Grumble8710625 Oct 2019 8:53 p.m. PST

the Johnny Reb game sounds interesting. That's under the "always wanted to play it but never found the time". I found my copy of Johnny Reb that I ordered over 20+ years ago still in the envelope.

I consider Johnny Reb to be the best set of regimental-level ACW rules in the business. Though my personal preference is for Johnny Reb 2, I encourage you to check out the JR 3 game at Fall-In!

Grumble8710625 Oct 2019 9:05 p.m. PST

Maybe I am not looking properly but when going to the HMGS website and clicking on Fall In and then the exhibitor info it says Exhibitor List with nothing shown so my question is does anyone know when the list of exhibitors will be posted to the website?

Disco Joe, the exhibitor info map has already been posted. Go to:
https://www.hmgs.org/page/FIHome
Click on "Exhibitor Info"
Click on "Hall layout map" It will show you the exhibitors and their location in the hall.

Don't click on "Shopping/Exhibit Hall" on the F-I! home page (which is -- I think -- what took you to the dead end of no-click territory: Exhibitors List).

Also, if you click on the "interactive Image" button it will open the hall chart so that you can click on an exhibitor's booth and doing that will take you to the exhibitor's website.

TSD10126 Oct 2019 8:37 a.m. PST

I don't know how popular Ronin is as a game but the only experienced Ronin player the game attracted was me.

Having run Ronin at a convention once, I don't think I would run it again in a convention setting without an overhaul. Initiative is a massive slog when you've got 8 players with 5-7 Samurai/Ashigaru and they all have to go in order, 1 at a time, when you're in combat.

Bowman27 Oct 2019 11:26 a.m. PST

I love Ronin and it's my "go to" Samurai skirmish game. But I totally agree with you. The detail and the "chrome" that makes it a deeper game (such as initiative order, and how wounds impact the game) will slow things down. And in a noisy convention setting with a bunch of newbies it could be very problematic.

To be fair, the husband and wife team that ran a 6-8 player Ronin game did a great job. You did need 2 GMs and they both knew the game inside out. They did have to do quite a bit of "hand holding" throughout the game but everyone had a good time. They may even have "dumbed" the rules down a bit, regarding the initiative order, can't remember. The table and figures were awesome and they won a PELA for their efforts.

So it can be done. But not by me as a single GM.

So my favourite Samurai game doesn't necessarily translate to a very good convention game for me to run. However, my favourite mass battle Ancients game, Hail Caesar, does translate well to a convention setting. Enjoyed Cliff Brunken's excellent HC game at Historicon. So it depends.

Bowman27 Oct 2019 11:33 a.m. PST

TSD101, have a look at this. It is what I ran at the convention.

PDF link

TSD10127 Oct 2019 7:51 p.m. PST

TSD101, have a look at this. It is what I ran at the convention.

Thanks for this. Will do.

pvi99th29 Oct 2019 7:15 p.m. PST

Per the discussion about popular rules: I usually look for rules that are either new or "lighter" fare. In the past I have tried some of the popular rules, like Johnny Reb, and watched things turn into an argument over what page certain rules are located on.

I would rather play in something that "isn't popular" than have all the rules lawyers come out to play their favorite games.

John Michael Priest30 Oct 2019 4:25 a.m. PST

As a GM I want the player to have fun and to get into the action as soon as possible. I prefer to to keep movement simple. I like lots of chance where "stuff happens" and the generals, as a friend of mine says, are not 200 feet tall.

The idea is to have fun and camaraderie, much like the games I ran in my history classes.

historygamer30 Oct 2019 5:51 a.m. PST

Grumble:

I agree. I am more of a JRII fan, than JRIII though the charge section needs some tweaking (less movement dice thrown).

pvi- New rules are a good thing to run, and help others learn them too. Not sure about saying popular sets of rules lead to arguments when that could happen in any game, for a number of reasons. That said, it is on the GM to make a final determination and keep the game running. Sounds to me like the GM lost control of his game. That is why there is a GM, to quickly resolve problems.

JMP I agree. I think the best thing, from my experience, is to set the units out just short of shooting. I find that doing a lot of marching and deploying wastes time and isn't fun for those involved.

While I am not proposing that everyone run Empire III, I still think there is great value in running some of the more popular rules, as that would seem to promote great growth in gaming that home-brewed rules that are a one-and-done experience. And yes, I am still surprised at the lack of said popular rules in the upcoming con for some of the more popular periods.

John Michael Priest30 Oct 2019 7:08 a.m. PST

I have played Carnage and Glory and Sharp Practice and like them. I game in 54mm on battalion level and am working on playing three games in the same scenario on the same table where the gamers concentrate on their sector of the field but can interact with others outside of their sector should they encounter them.

I am play testing it at Fall In. What I like about miniature war games are the variations individual GMs introduce to other rules sets like we do with Monopoly.

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