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"What is Happening on TMP?" Topic


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13 Sep 2019 4:21 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

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Personal logo Stosstruppen Supporting Member of TMP14 Sep 2019 4:43 p.m. PST

Additionally, the restriction would seem to include asking for references on rules, figures and other gaming items, which by the way, I have done a number of times.

Read the policy again. You are mistaken.

@Sho Boki the first sentence was my statement/question. The second is Bills response. It is getting rather convoluted, Bill probably needs to do a single post stating the rules and exceptions.

As it stands you can't advertise new releases, kickstarters, sales, etc. in the forums.

You can ask for references on rules and miniatures

You can ask about miniature lines

You can paint miniatures and say Hey Look at these I Painted from so and so

You can do AARs and mention the rules used etc.

You can do reviews of rules, minis, paint, etc. Probably should not be fanboy reviews, but an honest one.

All of the new releases, kickstarters, sales, etc will be handled via Hobby news. By virtue of that only paid advertisers will be able to post sales, kickstarters, new releases etc.

That is it in a nutshell. While I don't like it. It is easy to understand. It will leave a lot of miniature ranges, new releases, KS, etc unknown to TMPers….Sorry Bill I am not doing your leg work for you in getting advertisers….

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP14 Sep 2019 5:17 p.m. PST

"You can paint miniatures and say Hey Look at these"

But you can't sculpt miniatures and say Hey Look at these and ask advices and suggestions.
You can't paint your own miniatures and say Hey Look at these.
You can't talk about rules you work with.
You can't talk about miniature lines you plan.
You can't talk about your own handcraft.

And suddenly you may do all this with stranger objects.. who are even not advertised on Hobby News.

This is controversial..

Personal logo Stosstruppen Supporting Member of TMP14 Sep 2019 6:27 p.m. PST

Welcome to TMP…..

Personal logo Andrew Walters Supporting Member of TMP14 Sep 2019 11:06 p.m. PST

Vis-a-vis "fanboy" reviews: there are several companies I work or have worked closely with: playtesting, running convention events, writing rules, miscellaneous help. There are other companies I simply like a lot. None of these are perfect, and I know their flaws better than most. I am never going to be dishonest, by expression or omission, but if I say anything about these companies it's going to be positive, because they deserve it. When they have put out new stuff and the news has not made it to TMP I have started threads pointing it out. I guess that's not allowed any more. Because of my association with these companies, whether it's economic or not, any review I would post is going to have implicit bias (which I have and always will point out). But as I understand it that's not allowed either.

If you do something creative, you can absolutely count on people taking advantage of you. They're going to copy your software, they're going to steal your ideas, they're going to post your PDFs, they're going to recast your figures, they're going to scan your doggone rule book and put it on the internet, etc. This is absolutely going to happen.

The frightened response, the possessive response, is to wear yourself out trying to completely prevent this. It wastes your energy. Mostly it makes your customers unhappy. You absolutely must do a reasonable amount to protect yourself, but then you need to stop and turn your focus back to creating so much value that the theft, which is real, becomes trivial. The first few rules you make improve things, but quickly they become more of a nuisance to the innocent than an obstacle to the guilty.

I would much rather see higher membership rates than a restriction on what we can talk about for the sake of preserving the financial viability of TMP. Better yet, improve the site, double the number of members, increase income that way.

Bad Squiddo Games14 Sep 2019 11:50 p.m. PST

The Kickstarter/crowdfunding board I find confusing, as all kickstarter discussion is new/news. So paying advertisers can post their kickstarters in the hobby news bit (then declared second class news and put in that bit), but cannot discuss it on the forum, neither can any customer or other person, paying or not. So what does go in the ks forum?

Devil Dice15 Sep 2019 4:01 a.m. PST

I assume the Kickstarter forum will be left with just people complaining about not getting their kickstarters (unless that kickstarter is an advertiser!)

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP15 Sep 2019 4:30 a.m. PST

Where the Kickstarter forum is? I don't find.

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP15 Sep 2019 6:13 a.m. PST

Aaa.. found. It is under Crowdfunding.
Logically this forum must be empty now, as advertisers can't talk about their Hobby News on forums.

Basha Felika15 Sep 2019 10:18 a.m. PST

Are we still allowed to use the consumer affairs board to praise good service by a company that is not an advertiser?

Old Contemptible15 Sep 2019 10:53 p.m. PST

More to the point. Can we use consumer affairs to criticized or warn other members about companies which do advertise here?

Avanty16 Sep 2019 3:22 a.m. PST

I have a specific question. Currently, whenever there's a new article or review on the SOTCW website, I post a link to it on the relevant forum.

The SOTCW isn't a company, and it doesn't pay to advertise here. Am I still allowed to post links to new articles & reviews?

ninthdoc16 Sep 2019 7:18 p.m. PST

Bill, I have been gone a while, but just came back. I was a contributing member and I will be again likely in 2 weeks.

Could I make a suggestion?

Perhaps 2 levels of contributing memberships? One for fanboys and one for developers/companies/etc.

If a fanboy (fine you can be a grognard, I don't care!) posts something that is solicitation of any sort, the fanboy could be requested to up their contributing membership withing 24 hours or face removal, banhammer, whatever.

This would allow a lot of this debate to go by the wayside. Just a thought. Please carry on.

LeonAdler Sponsoring Member of TMP17 Sep 2019 4:55 a.m. PST

Very odd all this.
I can see a certain point in it but the current answer is not the answer. All its going to do is make the message boards less attractive for people.
The last article I wanted to post got shoved to the Hobby News and got a grand total of 2 replies, both from fellow proffesinals and kindly complimentry.
If that had gone on the 20mm board I'd have expected a dozen replies/inquiries/suggestions.
The turn over on the Hobby News is so rapid that anything you put up dissapears within 24 hours in my experience.
L

deephorse17 Sep 2019 6:08 a.m. PST

I rarely see Hobby News. This is because my TMP bookmark takes me straight to my main area of interest, WWII Discussion. I might branch off into a few other boards from there, but any visit to the front page is simply to get to somewhere else.

I value posts such as Leon's to let me know what he's currently working on and what's available now. If such posts are sidelined to Hobby News then I'll probably never see them, just as I hardly notice the banner ads at the top of each page. I don't come here for the adverts, I come here for the board content. If a board post happens to be advertising of a kind then it's worked for that company, and me.

If I'm only exposed to the products of companies that pay to advertise here, and then only in an area of the site that I don't really visit, then I'm not gong to see things that I might well buy. Yes, I could make a point of visiting Hobby News, but humans are creatures of habit and my habit is not to visit Hobby News where probably 99% of the content is of no interest to me.

Incidentally Leon, what happened to your post featuring the Waffen-SS machine gun team? It seemed to disappear the other day.

Old Glory Sponsoring Member of TMP17 Sep 2019 6:33 a.m. PST

+10 for LeonAdler !!!

LeonAdler Sponsoring Member of TMP17 Sep 2019 7:14 a.m. PST

Deephorse,
It got transfered to the Hobby News section. Just finished painting them so I'll have an advert up soon. Though as the cycle through the hobby news is so fast I imaghine no one will see it, whereas it would stay up on the message boards for a long time.
Kinda makes the point
BTW in case anyone wondering I do pay to advertise here I dont just post on the message boards.
L

MiniPigs In the TMP Dawghouse18 Sep 2019 4:09 p.m. PST

Maybe part of the solution is to consolidate the large number of sub fora? It seems like within Napoleonics, there is no need to separate the section into 20 different sub topics.

The General Forum is incredibly confusing with categories that seem very similar to me. Sometimes, unless I bookmark my own or a thread Im interested in, I can hardly re-find it.

And why cant the hobby news also be announced in the appropriate period forum and be opened up for discussion??

Wayniac Supporting Member of TMP19 Sep 2019 6:00 a.m. PST

Maybe the solution is to have both a dedicated Hobby News subforum for each period where each news article is a separate thread and then a global Hobby News section that aggregates those together, almost like an RSS feed. So in the period-specific section, each sort of hobby news post gets a topic where the first post is the link/intro to what is being showcased, and then it can be discussed right there. The global hobby news section provides links, grouped by period, to the relevant sections.

For example

-HOBBY NEWS-
[Napleonic]
New 15mm Waterloo French from Manufacturer A
Manufacturer B releases new terrain!

[WWII]
Warlord Games releases Polish infantry for Bolt Action

[Ancient]
Yet more Roman Legionnaires in 28mm

and so on, in a prominent position but only links to the relevant topic where it can be talked about.

Bad Squiddo Games19 Sep 2019 9:23 a.m. PST

So to mention a trade show, the organisers must become paid advertisers, and then post it in hobby news to be marked as low importance, and can't post about it on the forum? Doesn't that mean that nobody can mention events then?

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP19 Sep 2019 10:56 a.m. PST

Yes, nobody can't..

Devil Dice19 Sep 2019 11:27 a.m. PST

I think the new rules may have been dropped, I'm seeing people advertise their figures and kickstarters on the forum again without being deleted so things are probably back to normal.

Bandolier19 Sep 2019 3:10 p.m. PST

"Beep beep beep" (imagine a reversing truck noise).
The sound of a quietly reversing failed policy.

It was about 15 years too late to try something like this.

NickNorthStar Sponsoring Member of TMP19 Sep 2019 4:02 p.m. PST

After 17 years of supporting Bill and TMP, I'm having my posts deleted because of a 'new policy'.

Extraordinary. I wonder what possible harm my talking about the things North Star are doing in the message boards that haven't caused any problems for the last 17 years.

So I posted in the Marketplace, to quote:

WWII Marketplace – For buy and sell announcements, auction postings, advertisements, sales notices, and other commercial messages.

But that got deleted as well for being Commercial.

It would seem that I am only welcome here if I buy banner adverts. I've given TMP £50.00 GBP-£100 a month in banner adverts for the last 16 years, I only stopped this year temporarily while I relook at where North Star spends it's advertising.

Not sure what to say really….

Col Piron19 Sep 2019 6:44 p.m. PST

Not sure what to say really….

Good bye ?

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse19 Sep 2019 9:09 p.m. PST

Ha-Ha-Ha…!

Amicalement
Armand

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP20 Sep 2019 3:22 p.m. PST

Nick,

Interesting post, as a business we must be aware of our ROI in all areas including advertising. A point you made.

Dave

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP20 Sep 2019 4:27 p.m. PST

ROI…ROI..Intrigued

My Passport after 65 years in the UK, still says Republic of Ireland (thanks be to God, with about six weeks to go. I will be on the airport tarmac like Vietnam, Da Nang, when it all goes pear shaped, with the family)

Seriously though. I always posted new Perry stuff, purely to annoy Tango. Why? Because I got an e mail from them (as he did) early in the morning. I got great satisfaction from posting the new figures, while he was sound asleep due the rotation of the Earth.

It WAS advertising I accept and it did suddenly disappear. If I had added some content, by offering some measure of review or painted them myself fine.

I do see that is not unreasonable

coopman20 Sep 2019 4:49 p.m. PST

You have to get up pretty early in the morning if you want to beat Tango.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse20 Sep 2019 9:34 p.m. PST

(smile)


Amicalement
Armand

ArmybitUK Supporting Member of TMP03 Feb 2020 9:12 a.m. PST

So if you are an advertiser, can you post your news on the hobby news and the associated forum???

Ta

Legion 403 Feb 2020 9:32 a.m. PST

ROI – Return on Investment … (?)

Basha Felika05 Feb 2020 5:34 a.m. PST

Legion 4, yep ‘Return on Investment' was how I read it in this context.

Legion 405 Feb 2020 8:43 a.m. PST

Yes, that is what I thought … Even though I have 2 business degrees from my local university, YSU. You really don't need those to know that. We were taught that in basic economics classes in high school.

It as always comes down to $$$$ … money

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP05 Feb 2020 11:18 a.m. PST

Looking back some months now (and I certainly moaned more than most on several Message Boards) I really do think the "Change in Policy" is something we seem to have adapted to.

The images that now come up on the left of the screen these days do highlight what is on recent "Hobby News" and not just the last few days' input. I do follow them now, to a site I did not know even existed. Postings do not seem to attract as many comments as on a "specialised" Board as yet alas.

There seems no problem with showing new products with "added value" on any site. Nicely painted figures, dioramas, conversions must help sales, even if not strictly "advertising". That just takes more effort…nothing more.

Was I wrong? Maybe, after all. But ROI is Republic of Ireland, unless you will concede that US means "unserviceable". (a wind up…)

Legion 405 Feb 2020 2:56 p.m. PST

Yes, ROI is Rep of Ireland, but it seemed in this use it was about the bucks money. So you weren't really wrong … just in the use in this thread. evil grin

von Schwartz05 Feb 2020 4:19 p.m. PST

You have to get up pretty early in the morning if you want to beat Tango.


4AM early enough?

Legion 407 Feb 2020 8:19 a.m. PST

4AM early enough?
Depends on what hemisphere you are in …

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