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"Did Lincoln and the Republican Party Create the..." Topic


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Tango0111 Sep 2019 8:59 p.m. PST

… Civil War?: An Argument

Did them?…

link

Amicalement
Armand

mildbill12 Sep 2019 2:02 a.m. PST

No, they merely were the catalyst.

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP12 Sep 2019 4:09 a.m. PST

That's like saying the Poles started World War II by not surrendering to the Germans before the invasion.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2019 5:55 a.m. PST

I think the previous 30 years of North-South conflict preceding 1861 might have something to do with it

Roderick Robertson Fezian12 Sep 2019 8:58 a.m. PST

Lincoln was inaugurated on March 4, Fort Sumter was attacked on April 12. Not a lot of time for Lincoln to do much.

The South rebelled on the presumption that the gubmint was going to take their slaves away. Sound familiar?

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2019 9:33 a.m. PST

It was an interesting race in 1860

-With Lincoln representing Republican party (180 electoral votes)
-With Breckenridge (72 electoral votes) and Douglas (12 electoral Votes) representing the Democrats as Northern and Southern parts of the party
-and Bell the Constitutional Party candidate (39 electoral votes)

Interestingly Douglas got the fewest votes

donlowry12 Sep 2019 10:12 a.m. PST

And Lincoln wasn't even on the ballet in many Southern states!

Trajanus12 Sep 2019 12:50 p.m. PST

Yes that's right.

Apparently Mrs Lincoln said he didn't look in Tights!

Patrick R13 Sep 2019 1:55 a.m. PST

The stubbornness of the South to try to ward off all attempts to put slavery into question was self-defeating.

The slave-based agricultural economy may have been huge, it was crippled by debt and a lack of broader investment.

They became so focused that they doomed themselves to defend it to the death because in their mind there was no other way, so the more they got flak for the slavery issue the more stubbornly they tried to anchor it down, which lead to a brain drain where educated people and those with money to invest, who were not inclined to put it into more slaves and cotton, found their way North or even outside the US.

Slavery or nothing worked back in the 18th century and in the early years of the 19th century where the North was still strongly tied to the Southern economy. Civil War was nearly impossible because vast amounts of Northern money was tied into the South. This changed as the demographics and economic diversity of the North changed dramatically.

If the South's economy had managed to keep the pace there might not have been a Civil War, just a lot of angry shouting in the household and zero chance for reform leading to a perpetual stand off.

This myopic protection of slavery became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Every mention of slavery in the North meant more entrenchment, more blinkers and the closing down of more options.

Meanwhile the Northern states were blinded by their success, their economic growth and increased dominance in the US political and economic realm, they did not see the divide or even understand the South's precarious position. To them it was a matter of reform and the South would be better off.

The idea of reform was unthinkable in the South, it would lead to economic ruin, plain and simple.

Both sides failed to retain any meaningful dialogue and in the 1850's things came to a boil, where people could see only one option that would work for both sides, secession.

Lincoln would not have a secession and war were declared …

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP13 Sep 2019 4:36 a.m. PST

The election of Lincoln and the Republicans is often portrayed as a sort of 'last straw' for the South which led to secession and the war. But in fact, the 'last straw' came earlier and it was for the North, not the South. For pretty much the entire history of the country the South had gotten preferential treatment. First with the 3/5th rule which made votes from slave states count more than votes from free states. Then, when the abolition movement got rolling, you had censorship of the mail and the suppression of a free press in the South, followed by the Gag Rule in congress which subverted the right of petition. And there were the various 'compromises' which limited the expansion of slavery, but which always got broken or replaced when the South wanted more. Add in the Fugitive Slave Act, the ONLY Federal law which could actually reach into the home of a private citizen. The last straw was probably the Dredd Scott decision. Most Northerners didn't care about Dredd Scott, but the Southern-dominated Supreme Court went farther and essentially ruled that the free states had no right to keep slaves out. 'States Rights' only applied to Southern states apparently. By the election on 1860, the North was crying 'Enough!" and demanding that the South play by the same rules as the North. That got Lincoln and the Republicans elected and all the rest then followed.

Personal logo McLaddie Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2019 6:00 a.m. PST

The Republican Party grew out of opposition to the Kansas–Nebraska Act, which was signed into law by President Franklin Pierce in 1854. … The first statewide convention that formed a platform and nominated candidates under the Republican name was held near Jackson, Michigan, on July 6, 1854.

You could just as easily say that 'bleeding Kansas' created the Republican party or that Pierce created the ACW. The Republican Party was a reaction to an existing situation, not the catalyst for it.

donlowry13 Sep 2019 8:52 a.m. PST

I thought it was about Southern rats.

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