"What is the basis for the victrix Saxons" Topic

Looking at the preview they all seem to have some padded looking armor.
What evidence is there for this.

As far as I know during the viking period.
There is only one type of armor we know of and that is mail. No written source or archeological evidence for anything else.

And except for mabye command figures, a viking and Saxon unit would be indistinguishable.

Why the need to try and make more different than they are.

I'm sure it's cool when you got Roman legions fighting goals or Greeks but, in the early medieval period. Most north west Europeans looked very much the same in clothing, armor and arms.
It might be boring, but you don't go around making union troops wearing cuirassies and bren guns just because they are normally too similar to Confederates.

What? There is plenty of evidence in the sagas, other sources and archaeological sites for padded armor (or no armor). Mail was worn, but it was generally expensive. Most of the fyrd (and most Vikings) would wear no or padded armor.

MRC: "There is plenty of evidence in the sagas, other sources and archaeological sites for padded armor…".

Could you cite some, please? AFAIK, there's hardly anything, English or Viking: one reference to a dozen men wearing reindeer-hide coats in St Olaf's Saga – and they are presented as being unusual – and that's about it. The figures in cross-hatched clothing on some of the Gotland stones are sometimes identified as wearing padded armour, but that is guesswork – it could represent mail or even patterned clothing. Even though link argues that padded armour was worn under mail, it admits that "there is no extant archaeological evidence". In England the guys at link could conceivably be in short leather jerkins, but it's more likely mail shirts (and in any case is nothing like the Victrix figures).

Men in no armour at all, yes, there is plenty of evidence for that (and I don't think Gunfreak was denying it), but not much from either England or Scandinavia for anything in between "nothing" and "mail".

Oh, and a few pieces of lamellar from Birka.

Gunfreak: No, I don't know of any evidence for that weird Victrix Saxon padding. But I think you may overstate the extent to which they all looked the same, though. We know there were different "national" hairstyles, even though they weren't uniform, if only from the English preachers lambasting their fellows for adoption of pagan styles. And I don't think there is English evidence for the baggy trousers we see on the Gotland stones.

It's pre-Viking, but don't forget the incident Gregory of Tours relates, when the Saxons of Bayeux cut their hair in Breton style and adopted Breton clothing so as to be taken for their Breton neighbours: the morale seems to be that you could indeed tell different nations apart. We just don't, usually, know how.

I agree that the early vikings probably had very little armor. But padded armor not going to last the way mail might. One does not want mail against their body not even with an under tunic and over tunic. Taking layers of cloth to make armor is from the ancient period.

Yes, I do believe Vikings used some padding.

A thick layer of vadmel, could mean the difference between life or death. This would also give excellent padding under mail.

You are right kurkhan, that the humans might be sporting different styles. And mabye some cultures preferred other colours and naturally shield motives.

I was thinking more in the equipment department.
A shield and spear being minimum for all northern and western cultures. Then a helmet either iron/steel or leather with iron bands being likely.
An seax or axe as sidearm for poorer fighters and sword for professional warriors or richer farmers. Some might have a Dane axe.
The rich and the professional warriors might have splurged and got mail.

And that's it, if they have beards and long hair they are Vikings, if they are shaved and shorter hair they are Saxons.

Those Northmen who traded with the Med or served in Byzantine armies would have come into contact with a wide variety of armour types, including quilted armour.

I wonder how much clothing actually does survive from that period intact enough to be sure how it was made.

Quilting is a fairly common feature in dress in illustrations a little later in time so it is not unreasonable to think quilted/padded jackets were used as protection earlier.

Ya, but it looks so cool !!

Vikings probably were no more hirsute than the Saxons. I think about the only thing different in their kit was the slight absence of Christian imagery on jewelry, and possibly on their shields. Even that amalgamated over time.

Oh, and they had horns on their helmets as everyone knows….

Aethelflaeda,
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