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"Policy Change for Hobby News" Topic

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Personal logo BrigadeGames Sponsoring Member of TMP07 Sep 2019 1:48 p.m. PST

If it was about fairness, paying advertisers would be allowed to post on the forums. I can understand non paying ones being banned, but this is a ridiculous policy.

So if I run a Kickstarter, the only announcements of progress I can make are via Hobby news submissions.
Absolutely nuts.

If I run a time sensitive promotion there is rarely a time that Hobby news submissions go up in time.

Personal logo Gonsalvo Supporting Member of TMP07 Sep 2019 2:03 p.m. PST

I perfectly well understand that paid advertisers should be fairly advantaged for their commitment and dollars. No arguments there.

However, I am sorry to say that I too feel that the policy as stated is not well advised and is likely to lead to progressive decrease in interest in and usefulness of TMP, which would be most unfortunate. Of course, all policies are subject to change…

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP07 Sep 2019 2:10 p.m. PST

Bill: "Our advertising rates are low. If a company can't afford our rates, they shouldn't be in the business."

How low are these advertising rates?
I see only rates for annoying banners there.
And as I understand these rates allowed talking about new products only on Hobby News section now?
I always try to avoid this annoying commercial section and get information directly from Forums.
Can we (as users) turn out these annoying banners and Hobby News and go directly to forums?

Do TMP send invoices for these advertising rates?

How low must be the company's income when they shouldn't be in the business (and afford rates)?
My average income is up to 250 EUR per month. Minus 20% VAT and other taxes, up to 20% postages, raw materials, household expenses etc.

Can I show and share my sculpting and painting processes on Forums as earlier or not anymore?
Because eventually these sculpts becomes products and will be released.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP08 Sep 2019 5:47 a.m. PST

Posting this important change solely on TMP Talk was insufficient.

If one thing has emerged, it is the conviction that the majority of the most ardent contributors knew nothing about this change. I fully accept this is the Editor's Board, created by him, and he can set the rules as he wants. Indeed the Rules and regulations stress that.

But if I am an Ancients, or a SYW, or a Vietnam follower, I may well want to announce some new book or figure, unaware that I am causing any problem. I am then puzzled that my posting has disappeared 24 hours later without any explanation or contact.

As so often, communication has been the real problem here. I can actually see some case for the change, beyond the obvious commercial one. But I regret it.

Wayniac08 Sep 2019 7:46 p.m. PST

This seems like a huge mistake to me. This is a message board first and foremost, for a niche hobby within a niche hobby. The primary reasons people come here is to discuss and to see what companies are putting out since the historical market is much more hidden than your more commercial games. Without reviews or links here I bet most of these things would go under the radar entirely.

This seems like just a way to try and get more companies to pay to be advertisers or at the cost of the community that is the reason this site even exists at all.

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP09 Sep 2019 2:00 a.m. PST

Exactly! Forbbidding for hobbyist to share their little hobby with others hobbyists because it is promoting, is suicide for any hobby forum.

I think, that things must be vice versa, commercial forum should pay to little hobbyist who shows there their works, as with this they advertise and promote the forum.. ;-) /joke/

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2019 2:15 a.m. PST

I almost don't use the front page.

For every new figure line, sale or news I read on the front page. I read 20 on the forums. So this means I won't see much new stuff on TMP, on the other side Facebook is great for that info. So just another way TMP makes itself less relevant and giving it's users more reason to just use Facebook.

Devil Dice09 Sep 2019 3:07 a.m. PST

Well to be fair, the new rules don't seem to be very strictly enforced as there are still plenty of mentions of new figures on the boards and Tango is still posting.
Hopefully people will still post as usual and new stuff will still appear on the boards without getting taken down.
Best to forget all this, keep your head down and hope for the best! I think the wording of the rules make them sound far more draconian than they really are. I very much doubt anyone will get into trouble if they make the odd mistake.

Can I show and share my sculpting and painting processes on Forums as earlier or not anymore?
Because eventually these sculpts becomes products and will be released.

Judging by this TMP link which has been up for a couple of days, I'd guess you are fine to show off your sculpts for future products.
I'm sure Bill will give you fair warning if you transgress any rules.

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP09 Sep 2019 4:58 a.m. PST

Bill was very clear: "If you are doing it to promote the commercial interests of a non-advertising company, then please don't do it."

Even writing the name of company is promoting the commercial interest. IMHO

Bill continues: "Or ask the non-advertiser to become a TMP advertiser."

Also I can't do this as advertising company, because advertising companies are not allowed write about their works on Forums. Only on Hobby News section. As advertisers himself says.

Bill continues: "It is very inexpensive."

I don't even know what it means – to become advertiser and where I can do this. If this mean only buyng a banner, then this is very inexpensive indeed, true. This is only 33.3% from my profit and I can afford this.

People continues as usual, because they are not aware about new policy. I was also not informed before Deadhead's announcement and even then this announcement was quickly removed and transferred here, to TMP Talk.

tshryock10 Sep 2019 1:45 p.m. PST

This is disappointing, as I've learned about lots of new figures, Kickstarters and rules here -- while viewing various ads at the top of the page for other products to do so.

I worry that as the relevant news diminishes, so too does reader interest. Once that progresses to a certain extent, there is no longer any incentive to advertise.

While I understand the logic, I think the consequences could be very negative for the site overall.

Zephyr110 Sep 2019 9:46 p.m. PST

>Bill: "Our advertising rates are low. If a company can't afford our rates, they shouldn't be in the business."<

Does GW advertise here? Do they know it is very inexpensive?
(I don't recall ever seeing a banner ad of theirs here…)

Personal logo Tommy20 Supporting Member of TMP11 Sep 2019 5:09 a.m. PST

GW isn't denoted as an advertiser in the manufacturers directory.

Interestingly, there are several boards specifically dedicated to Warhammer & 40k. I wonder if they will be deleted under the new policy?

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP11 Sep 2019 5:40 a.m. PST

You must report to editors about this violation. They may not to be informed that GW is illegal.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP11 Sep 2019 1:34 p.m. PST

They are not listening I fear. Days now without any response anywhere.

This is always the failing. Not communicating. Whenever anything goes massively wrong, what do folk really complain about? Lack of any information. Even something to say we have no idea but something has happened in Manhattan on a Tuesday morning 18 years ago, but we have no idea what. We can understand that. Esp today. The Anniversary.

TMP is in a shut down right now and it is getting to be disgraceful and insulting to us all. There is no excuse that we do not yet know what is going on.

Up to now I have tried to be positive, as I find this forum invaluable and well worth a small annual sub to keep it going, as a supporting member.

UncleHex11 Sep 2019 6:13 p.m. PST

I don't post much on miniatures forums these days but I still visit many everyday. Mainly to seek out new miniatures…ok, almost solely to seek out new miniatures.

If the policy change means there will be far fewer new minis for me to find here; then I will come here far less often.

Also, I believe the gaming community/industry thrives on the free sharing of information. I'm not saying the hobby shouldn't be commoditised (afterall, I earn my living as a figure sculptor), just that to stifle one is to starve the other.

Wayniac12 Sep 2019 5:01 a.m. PST

It is hopeful, if nothing else, that Bill's OP says try this policy for a while and see how it goes. At the very least that indicates the potential that he will see it is not favorably received and reverse the decision, with no ill will born towards any party.

Devil Dice12 Sep 2019 6:53 a.m. PST

I'd be interested to see if this is classed as advertising and gets deleted

TMP link

the guy is already a paid advertiser but it went in a forum rather than Hobby News.
Then again surely the whole point of the sculpting forum is for this kind of thing, but I've been seeing kickstarters being deleted from the kickstarter forum, which was for announcing kickstarters!
The whole thing is a mess!

And what about this?
TMP link
A company advertising a review of a product on their own site?
Is than an ad or a review? Should it go through Hobby News or be ok on the forum?

Wayniac12 Sep 2019 7:26 a.m. PST

That second one is weird because its a link to a third-party site (I think?) that's doing a review about a product, but the link is posted from the company that makes that product. Like posting a link to someone else's review of your product.

So is it advertising or not?

Lambert Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2019 12:29 p.m. PST

Hi Bill

In the post that started this thread, you said "I've made the decision to try this new policy for a while and see how it goes".

How's it going?

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2019 12:38 p.m. PST

Seems it's going great!… (smile)


Lonkka1Actual29 Sep 2019 2:26 p.m. PST

A terribly bad idea!

The main reason I've visited TMP for over a decade is the fact that it has nicely had info on all kinds of products regarding our hobby. This policy basically kills 99% of such info.

It is especially hampering with Kickstarters since they are short lived and trying to locate the interesting ones is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Therefore community info is ESSENTIAL. Unfortunately the chance for this has now been killed.

I've often spoken against Tango's flooding the Message Boards but I've still found a huge number of interesting products and sites through his links. Apparently less so in the future.

Compared to Message Boards the Hobby News is basically a joke.

I also find it odd to mention such far reaching change of policy in a mere message board. I for one have missed this completely as I gather vast majority of other TMPers.

I feel that you've made the wrong decision and, figuratively speaking, shot yourself in your own knee. I urge you to reconsider your decision. Especially as you you check this thread it is almost 100% against your policy.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP04 Oct 2019 7:26 a.m. PST

There are probably three message threads running concurrently largely deploring the New policy.

The perceived problem is with relying on the Hobby News to advertise new products. This is a site I had hardly ever visited, my links always took me straight from my desktop to my chosen interest…Napoleonics. Much evidence that is how most of us work.

A suggestion. If the mountain will not come to etc..

Why not have a new Message Board on Napoleonics, on WWII, on Modern indeed every one of the Message Boards entitled New Products? Only the Editor can post, only those paying can advertise. The point, of course, is that we now just see what is new in the field of our greatest interests and it can stay on sight longer before being displaced by newer stuff. Might actually attract many more advertisers too.

von Schwartz04 Oct 2019 6:50 p.m. PST

Wow, this is getting waaay too much press. I feel like I'm sitting in on a marketing meeting at a local magazine publisher. I started coming in here to talk miniature gaming, painting, and basically BS with others about our mutual interest, i.e. miniature gaming. I know Bill has a business to run and I respect that he has a right to run his business the way he sees fit. But frankly, I like sausage too but I don't wanna know how its made.

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