DukeWacoan   | 01 Sep 2019 8:44 a.m. PST |
At what point would the Italians in North Africa start wearing primarily helmets as opposed to tropical hats, etc? |
| robert piepenbrink | 01 Sep 2019 9:50 a.m. PST |
The point at which they're shot at regularly? Seriously, no one mentions a helmet shortage even in the Italian army, and very few WWII soldiers of any nationality will get into even machine gun or mortar range without wearing one. |
| deephorse | 01 Sep 2019 10:21 a.m. PST |
On a more helpful note, I think you've asked something similar before. So here's my answer. TMP link |
 deadhead | 01 Sep 2019 12:48 p.m. PST |
I thought in any army the "point" was not a temporal one but a geographical. How close to the front line not the year of the war?
Seriously. You rarely see German POWs marched in huge columns wearing helmets. Equally, you do not see Afrika Korps, in genuine action sequences, wearing the iconic peaked cap, but instead a heavy uncomfortable chunk of steel.
No one wore the WWII helmets if they could avoid it. No one went without one, if the slightest need (including the Japanese, whatever comics and plastic modellers suggest)
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| DukeWacoan | 01 Sep 2019 3:17 p.m. PST |
It's my OCD raging right before making a fig order. |
| rick32 | 01 Sep 2019 9:22 p.m. PST |
If in combat, one of the first steps in surrendering is to ditch the helmet.. also, deserters got rid of their helmets while stragglers retained theirs, good rule of thumb for military police to tell the difference… but I digress, Italians and everyone else wore the helmet for combat… if you are modeling rear echelon types they could be caught wearing anything… |
| Mark 1 | 01 Sep 2019 10:19 p.m. PST |
…very few WWII soldiers of any nationality will get into even machine gun or mortar range without wearing one. No one went without one, if the slightest need… I have read that in the Red Army there was actually a bit of a macho peer pressure against wearing helmets. Soviet soldiers could in fact often be seen in combat wearing Pilotka side-caps. Some officers went to great lengths to get their men to wear their helmets. But I wasn't there. So just recounting what (little) I've read. -Mark
(aka: Mk 1) |
| Martin Rapier | 01 Sep 2019 11:41 p.m. PST |
I believe that poor quality, thin steel meant that Soviet helmets didn't offer huge amounts of protection anyway, so caps didn't make much difference. In winter the Soviets also often fought in their Ushankas, better than freezing your ears off, although in principle a helmet can jammed on top. I've got a couple of Russian helmets and they are far less substantial than an M1, a Brodie or a Mark V. |
| deadhead | 02 Sep 2019 1:09 a.m. PST |
The old story from WWI Briefly 1916 British/Commonwealth Army introduce the steel helmet. Overnight the incidence of head injuries shoots up. Much debate about the design. the helmet itself fragmenting, calls to withdraw it completely. Fortunately the penny quickly dropped. Without the helmet they would have died. |
| Mark 1 | 02 Sep 2019 11:21 p.m. PST |
Martin I am interested to read your assessment. I had quite the opposite impression, believing that the Russian SSh-40 helmet was actually ballistically superior to US and German helmets. At least that is the impression I have from my readings, and some YouTubers who have conducted firing tests. Example:
YouTube link That said, the helmet tested, while of the WW2 design, was post-war production. So it may well be that wartime cost and material savings (or just plain sloppy quality standards) produced different results in 1942 than in 1952. As to cold, you are right I'm sure. My readings on Romanians, Finns, and even US soldiers during the winter of 1944/45 all provide a common theme of the weather being too cold for a helmet, and one can see in the clothing issue various balaclavas and the like, of dubious value I'm sure, to be used under helmets in combat. -Mark
(aka: Mk 1) |
