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"Converged Spanish Grenadiers" Topic

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MiniPigs31 Aug 2019 9:40 a.m. PST

For tabletop purposes, did the Spanish, to the extend that they did it at all, converge Spanish grenadiers by nationality?

For example were Spanish grenadiers converged only with Spanish grenadiers, Irish with Irish, Swiss with Swiss?

I suppose I could sift through some of Nafziger's OOB but if anyone just knows the answer, I would appreciate it.

Whirlwind31 Aug 2019 10:07 a.m. PST

I don't *know* but the orders of battle for Medina de Rio Seco and the Espinosa campaign strongly suggests that Hibernia's grenadiers were brigaded with other Spanish line infantry grenadiers in the Army of Galicia.

Garde de Paris31 Aug 2019 10:11 a.m. PST

I understand that the Spanish line regiments were of 3 battalions. The 1st was of 2 grenadier and 2 fusilier companies. the 2nd and 3rd were of 4 fusilier companies. Not sure how grenadiers would have been brigaded with other regiment grenadiers. Colonels would probably have resisted losing their whole 1st battalions!


Personal logo Florida Tory Supporting Member of TMP31 Aug 2019 2:50 p.m. PST

Nonetheless, I think they must have done that. Here is a previous discussion.

TMP link

On looking it over, I note that my example (Oman, Vol 1, app. XI) missed one of the battalions of united grenadiers in Blake's Army of Galicia in 1808. There were two battalions in Mendizabal's Brigade; two battalions in Carbajal's Division; and one battalion in Mahy's Division. There aren't enough old line regiments in Blake's army to have formed five battalions (20 companies) with only one company detached from each line regiment. On a quick scan, I count only 15 distinct old line regiments in the army. Some of these are present in only a single battalion which may have been junior battalions with no grenadier companies to contribute to the united grenadiers.

By the way although I cannot put my finger on it right now, I believe I have seen an order of battle which listed a line battalion of six companies, which could have resulted by converging the two remaining companies of the first battalion with one of the junior battalions, after the grenadiers were stripped away.


Whirlwind31 Aug 2019 10:10 p.m. PST

Not sure how grenadiers would have been brigaded with other regiment grenadiers. Colonels would probably have resisted losing their whole 1st battalions!

It would be relatively easy to simply pair off first battalions, with one commanding officer taking the grenadiers and the other taking the fusiliers. It would actually be easier to do that than French practice (since you still end up with battalions of the same number of companies as previously). As Florida Tony notes, a Spanish battalion could also operate with six companies (since their light infantry was organized that way anyway).

Since Spanish regiments rarely served as a complete entity, then regimental colonels would probably not know about it…

Prince of Essling01 Sep 2019 5:20 a.m. PST

According to "Estados de la organización y fuerza de los ejércitos españoles beligerantes en la península, durante la guerra de España contra Bonaparte" link -at Rio Seco see link
Vanguard Division – Maceda 8 companies of Grenadiers (Zaragoza, Mallorca, Aragon & Voluntarios de la Corona)
1st Division – Cagigal ?companies (Grenadiers from milicias de Galicia)
4th Division – de Portazgo 10 companies of grenadiers (del Principe, Toledo, Navarra, Sevilla & Napoles)

Whirlwind01 Sep 2019 5:32 a.m. PST

Prince of Essling, thanks very much, that is a great link.

Prince of Essling01 Sep 2019 5:41 a.m. PST

Download link for the whole work is (I have posted in Useful Stuff in the Media section) link

Whirlwind01 Sep 2019 5:48 a.m. PST

Got it, much appreciated.

Sebaar25 Nov 2019 1:20 p.m. PST

Did converged grenadier battalions carried a standard? And if so, with one (Kings or Battalion Colours)?

Murvihill28 Nov 2019 4:17 a.m. PST

The territorial (?) militia had grenadier battalions, it's possible that some of the early ones in OB's were them. They weren't converged. Mind you, it's been decades since I read up on it.

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