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"Duchy of Warsaw Eagles / Fanions" Topic


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465 hits since 27 Aug 2019
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
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Lets party with Cossacks Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2019 4:02 a.m. PST

Looking for some guidance for 1812 Polish regiments. I have assumed only the first Battalion carried the silver eagle with regimental flag, and that the second and third battalions carried fanions. But what fanions? Or should I just go with eagles and flags for each battalion?

Cheers LPWC.

LtJBSz Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2019 8:59 a.m. PST

IIRC there was one eagle with the 1st Bn, the others carried the regimental flag but no eagle.

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2019 9:08 a.m. PST

Do you have a source?

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2019 10:46 a.m. PST

Zlargowitz, but the reality is unclear…

Prince of Essling27 Aug 2019 1:03 p.m. PST

Jan V Chelminski & A Malibran "L'Armée du Duché de Varsovie" published by J Leroy & Co Paris 1913; See Appendices
Pages 247 et seq refers.

Page 248 says "Il est probable qu'a l'instar de ce qui se passait dans l'armee francaise, chaque regiment recut un aigle qui devait servir d'enseigne au premier bataillon, les autr bataillons ne devant avoir que des drapeaux sans aigles. Mais ces reglements n'etaient sans doute pas suivis avec plus de rigeur que dans les regiments francais."

It goes on to describe the French practice following the decrees of February 1808, July 1809 & December 1811.

Then the text reads
"La meme insouciance du reglement existait dans l'armee polonaise; il n'y avait aucune uniformite ni dans les formes des aigles, qui son couronnees ou non, ni dans leurs dimensions, qui, habituellment de 22 a 25 centimetres, atteignent jusqu'a 50 centimetres d'envergure dans l'aigle du 1er regiment de chasseurs a cheval. On voit meme, la cate de l'aigle du 13e regimenmt d'infanterie, un Drapeau surmonte d'une aigle appartenant au 2e bataillon de ce regiment."

Rigo has a few planches of the Eagles (for example):
auction

picture

Lets party with Cossacks Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2019 1:16 p.m. PST

Thank you very much for the above.

One Eagle, three regimental flags would seem the most likely.

Prince of Essling that was a very impressive find. The last sentence is somewhat Delphic – a pity as the 13th, with its white and sky blue uniform, is my favourite of the Duchy of Warsaw regiments. But the source is useful.

A second question: what did the non-eagle battalion staves look like? Pointed tip or something else?

Prince of Essling27 Aug 2019 1:59 p.m. PST

On the 13e regiment d'infanterie text on page 249 says :

"Etandard avec aigle argent du 2e bataillon du 13e regiment d'infanterie (Plate VIII). Aigle de 17 centimetres de haut sur 19 centimetres. Drapeau de 65 centimetres sur 69 centimetres, borde de frange de 4 centimetres. Encadrement carre forme d'une bande de lauriers en or; au milieu, dans un cadre dor, figure du femme en blanc et bleu, un caducee dans la main gauche, la main droite sur un bouclier portant les lettres SPQR ; a ses pieds la louve du Capitole avec Romulus et Remus; le toute peint l'huile.
Inscription: Pulk 13; Drapeau prix a Zamosc lors de la reddition de la place.

Aigle argentee du 13e regiment d'infanterie (Plate VII). Aigle couronnee de 22 centimetres de haur sur 20 centimetres.
Socle avec les inscriptions:
{ Pulk 13 } { Woysko }
{ Piechoty } { Polskie }
Cravate de 62 centimetres sur 15 centimetres brodee d'etoile argent.
Drapeau pris a Zamosc lors de la reddition de la place.

The only mention that I can see for Fanions is on page 250. One is for the 1st regiment chevauleger de la garde imperial and the other in "Le Musee Polonais de Rapperswyl" (Switzerland). This fanion is of 3 equal sized triangles (flag would be 57 centimetres square if 4 triangles were present). However no mention of what topped the fanion's staff.

Let me know if you want any of these pages illustrations

Lets party with Cossacks Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2019 4:25 p.m. PST

Prince of Essling – yes I would very much appreciate the illustrations if that is still possible.

Kind regards LPWC

Garde de Paris28 Aug 2019 4:05 a.m. PST

Can you comment on the number of battalions a Duchy of Warsaw line infantry regiment might have had? The 4th, 7th and 9th, sent to Spain, had only 2 battalions. As I recall, the Vistula Legion infantry also had only 2 battalions per regiment. 3 regiment served in Spain, and a 4th was added for the invasion of Russia.

GdeP

Prince of Essling28 Aug 2019 1:39 p.m. PST

Page 91 & 92 paraphrased say that the Royal Decree of 30 March 1810 resulted in an army of 60,000 effectives and incorporated the Franco-Galician Legion. Numbers below are establishment full strengths.

Resulting in 17 regiments of infantry each of 3 battalions (6 companies each) – each regiment 2,487 men – 14 regiments in Poland.
16 cavalry regiments (11 uhlan, 3 chasseur & 2 hussar) each of 4 squadrons of 2 companies – totalling 12,345 men plus 1 Cuirassier regiment of 419 men in 2 squadrons.

Artillery – 1 foot regiment (8 field companies & 8 garrison companies) 2,685 men; 1 horse regiment (2 squadrons each of 2 companies) 691 men.

1 battalion of engineers (6 companies plus 1 pontoniers) 756 men.

Prince of Essling28 Aug 2019 1:44 p.m. PST

@ Lets party with the Cossacks

Do drop an e-mail to Prinzessling@gmail.com so that I can reply with appropriate pages.

Prince of Essling28 Aug 2019 2:19 p.m. PST

Will check tomorrow Bronislaw Gembarzeski "Wojsko Polskie – Ksiêstwo Warszawskie 1807-1814" printed 1905 Warsaw for any clues on fanions….

Prince of Essling29 Aug 2019 2:28 p.m. PST

Afraid no clues that I noticed on the Fanions in "Wojsko Polskie – Ksiêstwo Warszawskie 1807-1814", but good stuff on the organisation of the infantry regiments (page 58 et seq).

Strengths all theoretical i.e. if at full strength:
1806 – 3 battalions (1 depot) each of 9 companies – 1 of which grenadier & 1 voltigeur (122 personnel per each company); total strength for a battalion 1,130 men; total regimental strength 3,454 men.

March 1807 – battalion strength reduced to 1,126 men.

?? each company increased to 140 men.

?? battalion strength increased to 1,260 then 1,264 and then 1,266 men.

Obviously this volume & "L'Armée du Duché de Varsovie" do contain breakdown by rank for regimental & battalion staff & companies if anyone is interested.

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