"Guns from the Future: The FN P90" Topic

"Any leap forward in design, fashion, and/or technology can be greeted as the harbinger of the future or a laughing stock by the masses. While this can be applied to personal electronics, clothing, and architecture; it can also be applied to firearms. During the 1980's, the western nations invested heavily in advancing weapons technology to overcome the numerical superior of the Warsaw Pact. This was the time of cutting edge weapon system like the Apache attack helicopter, the M1 Abrams, the Steyr AUG, night vision, laser sights, and the H&K G11. It was also during this time that there was a rise of international terrorism and the development of counter terrorism special operations units that operated in the shadows. The tool of these operators was the SMG, namely, the H&K MP5 9mm. However, the spread of bodyarmor caused the future of the 9mm sub gun to be questioned by military planners and soon there was work on new high velocity cartridges. It was the historic Fabrique Nationale Herstal firearms company that soon took the challenge of a new HV cartridge and developed one of the most iconic futuristic weapons of all time: the FN P90 PDW. In this new serial, we will be exploring and explaining real-world weapons system that are deemed "futuristic" and used by sci-fi creators. I thought that due to the P90's frequent usage as a future firearm, that this little Belgium weapon earned the right to be the first weapon in this new series…."

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Amicalement
Armand

Thanks. I've seen them in France, but not much in miniatures.

Hate that design.

Just looks silly, even if it works well.

Love the Carnik Con photo! I really miss that channel.

As for the P90, I've seen it used by Elhiem in 20mm, and a few not-SG1 figs. I wish there were a few more options in 28mm with modern SMG's. I'd love to have more figs with Kriss Vectors and HK UMP's.

Some Hasslefree figures can be armed with these or the self-loading-only PS90. They're even available as spares.

Yes, in the Stargate Series the SG Tms used them. I like the Bullpup design. Certainly would be useful in many situations, IMO.

Almost as cool as the Styer.

(smile)

Amicalement
Armand

They're neat little weapons – I'd love to have one to carry while hiking. Light, short weapons are great for carrying up in the mountains, especially where mountain lions and other dangerous wildlife are a realistic threat.

Glad you like them my friend.

Amicalement
Armand

I find them ok. Pro is very controllable in burst or fully automatic, good that the casings drop out of the bottom of the gun. Especially useful when firing from inside a vehicle. Small and compact, again very useful in CP work from vehicles for the "CAT" personnel of small CP teams. Large mag capacity, less spare mags to carry which is good when you want to be fairly inconspicuous in civilian settings ( carrying weapons will make you stand out but for sure but you stand out less when viewed from a distance or at a quick glance)

Con, very limited penetration after firing through "concealment" or "bad cover". Eg penetration of target after firing through a windshield is not deep enough to do serious damage to a target. You definitely need several hits to do some damage.

In a test after shooting through a windshield from about ten feet distance the bullet traveled about 5 inches in ballistic gelatin, not deep enough I believe.

That's the whole idea. It's a PDW which can be used indoors and aboard vessels with reduced risk of slaying anyone on the other side of a wall beyond your target. It's not meant for stopping moving vehicles three blocks away. For that you use a Beryl… then achieve nothing, switch to the Kar98k and headshot the driver first go…

Well again, we are comparing the performance of the P90's Bullpup designed assault rifle round. Which is more of a carbine round vs. e.g. the full .30 cal 7.92m long rifle round. So yes performances will vary regardless.

Too bad a .50cal anti-material rifle is so big & heavy …

Assault rifle round? 5.7x28mm? You sound like a sensationalist journalist partially fictionalising a report of a violent crime.
Of course performance varies; you're comparing things meant for different purposes together in use for the same purpose.
.30 is for infantry on a battlefield; 5.7x28mm is for police and personnel inside a vehicle, vessel, building or aircraft. It's a "get off me" gun. You may as well be comparing the performance of a pig-hunting rifle to a fowling piece.

Clearly IMO a 5.7x28 is an assault rifle rd. as is the M16's at 5.56x45. They again would fall in the category of carbine rd. in days passed. Albeit they are not the same rd.

A .30 cal round is generally considered a rifle rd. albeit many militaries still use assault rifles. E.g. 7.62x39, 5.56x45, etc.

The 5.7x28 may considered by some to be closer to a pistol rd. of the past. E.g. the .45, 9mm, etc. But it is more powerful than the standard pistol/SMG rd. If the reports are to be believed, and I do. Again, many militaries don't use SMGs much anymore. As an Assault Rifle is a better choice for most Infantry work.

I've fired and used the M16 and AK47 while in the US ARMY Infantry, '79-'90. As well as firing many rifles in my youth, including the 98K. Before joining ROTC '75-'79, where we fired the, '03, M1, M14 and M16.

I didn't "get off" firing any of those. They were part of my training, my craft, as a [former] military professional.

You sound like a sensationalist journalist partially fictionalising a report of a violent crime.

If I may be so "bold", I forgot more about weapons systems than many/most in journalism and probably many here as well. Note: I'm not pointing fingers in any direction … just making a biased observation.

The M14 is more powerful and has a longer range than the M16. Although both have the same Max Effective rg. of 460m. Which has more to do with the open sights than the rd. Plus as always a weapon is only as good as the troop behind it.

Regardless I think the article does a pretty job, much better than I talking about P90 and it's uses.

"I've fired and used the M16 and AK47 while in the US ARMY Infantry, '79-'90. As well as firing many rifles in my youth, including the 98K. Before joining ROTC '75-'79, where we fired the, '03, M1, M14 and M16. "

The P90 is none of those things. It's not an SMG either, though it shares the SMG's similar use of handgun rounds (now called "interchangeable rounds" in some circles).

"Clearly IMO a 5.7x28 is an assault rifle rd. as is the M16's at 5.56x45."
Not if a handgun using that round is a practical handgun design.
This is how you use 5.56x45 in a pistol:

This is how you use 5.7x28 in a pistol:

Good pics. Seems to me with the basic P90 design it is closer to an assault rifle or maybe even an SMG. E.g. like the, MP40, MP5K or Uzi. Of course the IDF found the Uzi 9mm pistol rd. to not have the range in the open desert, i.e. the Sinai … It like most SMGs it fires a pistol rd.

But we may have to agree to disagree … I think the P90 is closer to an assault rifle. As like many Assault Rifles firers an intermediate rd., more liked to a carbine rd. It has a large magazine capacity, selective fire and is lighter weight than a full .30 cal rifle, e.g. FN, G3, 98K, M1, M14, etc.

Modern fire & maneuver tactics requires one element to provide suppressive/cover fire while the another element maneuvers/moves from cover to cover. The unit bounds elements unit it reaches the OBJ. Then goes into the direct assault. This why the Assault Rifle was designed for. So based on this I believe the P90 is closer to an Assault Rifle than otherwise.

But again we may have to agree to disagree …