"August 23, 1936 - Nazi/Russian pact that doomed Germany" Topic

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This may have been the decision that doomed both GErmany and Japan to the loss of WWII.

GdeP

Leaving aside the credibility of this ludicrous web site, I don't see this article claiming that any decision it purports to cover "doomed both Germany and Japan" to anything. Perhaps you inserted an incorrect link?

MH

It is my observation that this agreement doomed both Japan and Germany. With Hitler now believing he could take on France and Britain without interference from Russia.

Hitler believed Japan would support him, but Japan got a blood nose fighting Russian armor, and lost trust in Hitler.

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, December 7, 1941.

Hitler declared war on the US on December 8, an insane move.

Thus ended the chances of Germany and Japan to win.

GdeP

Another article on this topic by Victor Davis Hanson:

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GdeP

Another article on the same theme today:

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GdeP

Your supposition then is without the pact Hitler would not have attacked Poland and risk certain war with France and Britain. While the pact may have made things easier, at least at first, for the Germans I believe your last link should be taken for this situation as well "it was in their nature". :)

Germany and Japan (throw in Italy as well) doomed themselves.

Not meant as a criticism of GdP, but more directed at the sources he seems to be reading here…

Another article on the same theme today:

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From the link:

A week later, on September 1, 1939, Nazi Germany, under Hitler, attacked Poland; the Soviet Union, under Stalin, annexed eastern Poland. Two days later, France and Great Britain, realizing there would be no "peace in our time," declared war on Germany. Offering no resistance, France fell quickly and easily.

Wow. Talk about short-cutting through history. The Soviets annexed eastern Poland, and two days later France and Great Britain declared war on Germany? France offered no resistance?

This is the kind of flippant use-a-few-well-known-factoids followed by not-quite-true recounting of history that is the first indicator of historical revisionism. Appeal to the under-educated masses with analysis of a history of your own construction so you can make political points.

There is an oft quoted saying (largely attributed to G. Santayana, a Professor of Philosophy at Harvard): "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

In this case we might morph that a bit: "Those who re-write the past seek justification for repeating it."

No thanks.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

There's also a saying that history doesn't repeat but it rhymes.

I encourage all members to read these 3 articles. If we can avoid the Napoleonic "button count" accusation of many on that board, and filter the above quotation from Ethel C. Fenig to read…

"A week later, on September 1, 1939, Nazi Germany, under Hitler, attacked Poland; the Soviet Union, under Stalin, SOON annexed eastern Poland. STILL LATER (NOT Two days later,) France and Great Britain, realizing there would be no "peace in our time," declared war on Germany. (OMIT Offering no resistance), France FOUGHT BUT THE MAIN ARMIES WERE OVERRUN, fell, AND THE BRITISH EVACUATED THE CONTINENT. (OMIT quickly and easily).

ETHEL appears to be a warrior for the Jewish faith, and an active defender.

GdeP

I turned 83 today, and realized that I have these two tragic events to recognize from past August 23rds. The first is the Levee en Masse in 1793, which essentially sealed the doom of the small, expensive professional army of the Kings, and put us all in the condition of potential draftees for modern war.

The second is this pact between Nazi (Socialist) Germany and Soviet Socialist Russia. I have never paid attention to this event until Dr. Hanson's article appeared early in August.

From the events he mentioned I concluded the this pact started a series of mistakes that sealed the doom of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

1. The Pact appeared to Hitler to ensure that he did not have the Soviets as a threat to his rear, and could launch the invasion of Poland, the most of western Europe, etc.

2. A little less than 2 years later Hitler attacked Russia.

3. At the time of the pact, Japan was fighting the Soviet Union on the Manchurian-Mongolian border. This surprise agreement caused the Japanese to withdraw from the fight with Russia, just months before Hitler invaded Russia.

4. Japan attacked the US at Pearl Harbor, awaking the sleeping giant of US manufacturing productivity.

5. Hitler then declared war against the US, ensuring allied victory, and the doom of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

From a miniatures perspective. I recall playing Axis and Allies board games many years ago. Seemed endless, but these points could offer more local scenarios to the imaginative among us.

GdeP

The ‘1936' in the topic title threw me. And I could have done without all the religious references throughout the text. But when you read the author's biography maybe it's no surprise.

Larry Provost is a Veteran of Afghanistan and Iraq. A graduate of the State University of New York at Oswego, Regent University, and Liberty University, he previously worked as a Capitol Hill staffer and served as Director of Commuter Affairs, with primary responsibility for voter registration, at Liberty University. His voter registration efforts at Liberty changed the outcome of several local elections. An advisor to several Conservative groups, he serves as the Chaplain for American Legion Post 1 in Washington D.C. and is a supporter of The Leadership Institute and other entities.

And how exactly did his ‘voter registration efforts' change the outcome of elections? Did his actions encourage or prevent people from voting?

And how exactly did his ‘voter registration efforts' change the outcome of elections? Did his actions encourage or prevent people from voting?

Having been a "towny" elsewhere, I will hazard that he got a lot of students (NOT locals) to register from their dorms and skewed the local elections. Let them stay on their campus, and we'uns'll stay in our town.