"US Withdraws from International Postal Union" Topic

Ordering internationally by mail is about to get more "interesting" as the US withdraws from yet another longstanding international agreement.

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Oh. Joy.

Hope the U.S. can negotiate something better. In some countries, the recipient pays a fee on packages from the U.S. as high as the worth of what's in the package!

Bill

Which countries? I thought this was a sort of international compact that allowed free/reduced shipping from "developing" countries to encourage purchases from them. China is rated "developing." That's how we can get free shipping on those bubble envelopes of plastic trees.

I'm never sure I can trust them. Whenever I order anything I do a lead test.

FWIW, they've always passed.

Which countries? I thought this was a sort of international compact that allowed free/reduced shipping from "developing" countries to encourage purchases from them. China is rated "developing." That's how we can get free shipping on those bubble envelopes of plastic trees.

KPinder – exactly. I know that there can be importation charges that are steep in some countries.

Just came across Chinese Trees and I'm doing more research.

I doubt that this has anything to do with helping other countries and if you believe that then all I can say is "Well bless your heart."

Here in the UK you have to pay tax on some imports from the US, most hobby products fall in that category, and then you get hit with a fee from the deliverer for collecting and paying that fee. In some cases the fee is greater than the tax.

You'd pay this if it came from anywhere outside the EU though so it isn't specifically a tax of US imports.

Which countries? I thought this was a sort of international compact that allowed free/reduced shipping from "developing" countries to encourage purchases from them. China is rated "developing." That's how we can get free shipping on those bubble envelopes of plastic trees.

Yep, the US taxpayer has been subsidizing mail from countries like China -- which is why it's cheaper to order product from Chinese/HK-based hobby/game sellers than from, say, Australia. So why should that practice continue?? And it would help EU, UK and Australian game shops and producers be more competitive if the postal rates were realigned.

Here's a key part of the article – the US is actively negotiating for a better deal, not just pulling out because…

On September 24-25, the UPU will convene an Extraordinary Congress to consider proposals related to terminal dues. If a resolution is not reached, the U.S. will withdraw from the union on October 17.

SBminisguy---no fair, you are using facts instead of ad hominem attacks and innuendo. Shame on you!! :)

Ah the old "I'll take my toys away" argument. Seems to happen a lot in the past couple years.

I am all for this. Free shipping from China subsidized by the US taxpayer is just wrong.

Already too expensive for me to order from the US to UK..look at the postage for E-Bay items.
I don't know if it's also the same in reverse.

Already too expensive for me also (to Australia); although there is some variation from company to company.

How is the US subsidizing shipping from China?

Anyway, I have stopped buying stuff from the USA. The shipping is ridiculous. Rates from the EU are much more reasonable.

Well, I'm waiting for some free shipped plastic tents…hope they make it through. :-)

#Forrester

It seems to vary a lot on ebay. No obvious rhyme nor reason. Sometimes it's about $6. USD Often it's about $12. USD Sometimes it's $24 USD+. My experience with vendors in the UK is very different. With them it's usually $5 USD-$10 depending on the order size. 4Ground ships free over £100.00 GBP Their Hereot (sp?) Is £235.00 GBP It must weigh a TON. I have no idea how they can make that work.

Actually, I do know. They get Theresa May, (she's out of work, right?) They give her a Eurorail pass and she takes the parcel to Naples, where she pays a half drunk US swabbie $20 USD to APO it back to the States. Easy.

Please let this wait until after I've ordered fro Gringo 40s!

"How is the US subsidizing shipping from China?"

The argument is essentially that China to US postal rates are paid at a level for the Chinese market but that a portion of the journey is carried out by a US postal carrier.

There have been statements that this means that a US customer pays twice as much to deliver a package to a customer within the US than it costs to deliver the same size package from China. I don't know the accuracy of this, though there are articles against the withdrawal that do say similar stuff.

Hopefully this will get resolved before the date for withdrawal. If it isn't I assume there will essentially be no international mail to/from the US via USPS until bilateral agreements are reached with each country individually.

Given how well other trade agreement negotiations have gone recently, I'm tired of "winning".

I just ordered a book from a european publisher. If I had ordered it shipped to the US the shipping would have been significantly more than the cost of the book. Instead I ordered it delivered to my son's in-laws in the Netherlands. He is visiting there now and will bring it to me in January. Perhaps this change could be good since it is clear that it is costing our hobby.

I purchase a fair amount of my hobby supplies from European (and I include the UK in that geographic term) vendors. I don't find the pricing that much more than many of the things I order in the USA. If I calculate the shipping costs on a per mile basis then it equates fairly evenly. If no deal is struck then shipping costs will undoubtedly rise.

I recall posting on this several months ago and was told it was no big deal. Seems to me that it is indeed a big deal.

Sounds like there won't be cheap Chinese goods any longer no matter how cheap the labor. The cost of living just got a bit higher.

I recall posting on this several months ago and was told it was no big deal. Seems to me that it is indeed a big deal.

Not a big deal yet. If the pattern holds true we're in the "chicken" phase of the negotiation, with one side screaming that the other is a big meanie. Then talks, then a deal -- that's how NAFTA got replaced.

that's how NAFTA got replaced.

Until CUSMA has been ratified by all three nations, it hasn't replaced NAFTA. Mexico has ratified it, Canada is on track to do so, but no progress has been made in the United States.

In reality, NAFTA got a few minor tweaks, was renamed, and it was then announced we were "winning."

Under this administration I expect a similar process. A minor tweak, a small change or two and an annoucenment that this was the GREATEST negotiation, ever, in the HISTORY OF MANKIND

try returning a package to China my Mom donates goods she would otherwise return because return postage for Chinese goods often cost more than the item is worth. If that is the case how can they shipped here to begin with unless it is subsidized

FEE = TAX.

Obviously.

As Extra Crispy pointed out, CUSMA is actually NAFTA 2.0 that was reached under Obama with a few minor tweaks and name change after the Trump hard-line points were quietly walked back. It's not likely to get passed before 2021 at this point.

The part everyone should be freaking out over is here:

If the withdrawal takes effect in October, the United States would need to negotiate bilateral agreements with countries that carry American mail. This potentially lengthy process could create complexities that include delayed delivery, increased customs scrutiny and higher costs. The full impact of a U.S. withdrawal from this 145-year treaty remains uncertain, particularly as it relates to election mail.

That not only means that sending packages to troops overseas is going to get really difficult/expensive/impossible, but election mail as well (as cited in the article). With 195 countries, it'll take years to patch any semblance of order together.

Wyatt

I'm sure the courier services are going to love this.

Costs are so high with the USPS that may be a competitive, or better option already, anyway.

Seems like the change will impact on US voters overseas (several million, including hundreds of thousands of service personnel)

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Looks like parcels from the US to overseas may now require additional postage to be paid by the recipient upon arrival in country (in addition to any import charges, taxes, etc.), whilst parcels from overseas to the US will incur additional charges for the recipient, increased delays and potential risk of non-delivery.

So it looks like my purchasing of US goods may end up limited to buying when I'm there, or asking friends to bring back stuff when they visit.

Im not sure of the details.
But here in New Zealand shipping anything from China is very cheap.
Someone must be subsidising it.
I mean the parcel still has to be delivered from our main airport to a small town.

YouTube link

YouTube link

To me the best way to understand it is this. A policy is created to help 3rd world and impoverished nations by having their packages subsidized by wealthier nations. For some insane reason China and Hong Kong are both listed as poor and deserving of aid. In my opinion this is the heart of the problem.

Then several groups not intended to benefit line up to engorge themselves on the handout. (Amazon and Ebay among them) These include American drop shippers, various corporations who send their products to China for re-distributions back to the US, as well as score of American companies who produce products in China and have them directly shipped to customers. (kick starter?)

Most developed nations are part of this agreement so Canada, Australia, etc have to pay.

The postal service loses money on each package and the package volume grows to gigantic proportions as more and more people line up to gobble the handout NOT INTENDED FOR THEM.

As postal service losses mount they must make up the difference by raising rates on their domestic customers. And over the past several years I can assure you this is having a devastating impact on my ability to sell products outside the US. I can not even compete within the US because of shipping increases. I try to keep shipping as low as possible but lose money on many orders.

The end result is that the very people the policy was intended to help rarely benefit. Instead millionaire Americans are all over Youtube telling everyone how to drop ship products directly from Aliexpress.

It is very frustrating because I personally would fully support this policy as to help the desperately poor nations of the world. But this policy has been grossly abused and now it must be changed or else more and more market distortions will result.

When I found out that some American companies are shipping containers of their products to China to save money on mailing those same products across town I knew something was grossly wrong with this system. That cost was being paid by someone and that someone is the average small business within country who is getting wiped out in the process.

I predict the fix will be to re-designate China and Hong Kong as no longer being lowest tier nations and put them up with the other nations. This will equalize the shipping costs.

Or China will simply bribe a couple of our government officials and the market distortions will continue.

Update-
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Wow. Looks like China has a built-in loophole with FedEx, and others. I've ordered mini's from Hong Kong which were $7 USD-$12 less expensive than the same toys from US companies. I only learned of the shipping issues within the past year. It is desperately unfair to US companies. China has no respect for US IP rights, either. I worked for a company which had critically important technology stolen by Chinese operatives, prior to 9/11/01. It was USA Defense Department stuff, which has had consequences still affecting the USA, today. Not a fan of the Chinese government. Glad to see something is being done to reign their government in. Cheers!

I'm far from a fan of the communist Chinese government, as are most Chinese.

If you think shipping to/from Europe and Australia is expensive, you should realize shipping to Canada is charged at the same rate as to Australia!

Thank you, KenofYork for your excellent explanation.

Yes-thanks KenofYork.

Totally agree with KenOfYork. It is cheaper to order something from China than from a company across town… Shipping cost wise.

Sweden has also tried to fix this loop hole.

I stopped ordering hobby stuff from the US earlier this year. I get pretty much all my paints & tools from Japan!

My last US order was with Bombshell Minis (great creators!) …. just 1x mini and a shedload of clear helmet visors (the bubble/astronaut kind) and I got absolutely hammered with C&E, etc. I honestly thought the P&P was a bit OTT, but I always find that with US vendors, for whatever reason.

In the end, BSM obviously got their money for the product & P&P as I'd paid with PP, but I was loathe to pay the same amount times two! to the UK C&E / PO! So just out of principle, I cut my nose off … (principle & spite are kinda the same thing, right? ,-))

This is the only reason I haven't made a huge order with Khurasan yet. I'm just not willing to be bent over the table and shafted to the tune of 3x the product price including P&P!).

On edit: I don't know who's to blame for this situation, so I can't really point a finger … it just sucks buying stuff in the UK from the US.

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This new article may have a different take on things. It seems only the US is actually going to be changing the rates for inbound Chinese packages.

So I assume everyone else will continue to subsidize?

Not an ideal situation so I guess international shipping will still be insanely expensive.

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USPS losses grew by over 100% last year. But this article decides to ignore the elephant in the room of subsidized shipping on our online purchases.

US shippers can expect further increases in shipping costs to try to cover these huge losses.

And so the cycle continues………………..