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"How far do you go?" Topic

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UshCha14 Aug 2019 12:15 a.m. PST

Machine guns genrally and tripod machine guns doulbly so, are a nightmare. They are extreemly powerful but need accurate set up. So more reading and you find that most MG's seem to hasve an angular range of about 800 MILS (I now know this to be 45 Degrees, so Plus or Minus 22.5 degrees). Technicaly if you stray more than that you need to move the tripod and screw up the settings. So do I allow for this or not. Horror of horrors proably not. There may not be many occations it's an issue and it would be too many rules.
The other issue is that it should not be sigted to fire within 25 mils of a friendly unit. We have no such limit. Do any other games have a limit? Again adding a limit adds rules for a bit of a none issue as the figures are over large anyway so assuming not over a base on the level may be enough.

Legion 414 Aug 2019 5:38 a.m. PST

Many light/SAWs[M249s only have a bipod] and Med MGs e.g. M60/M240 don't have to be tripod mounted to be effective. We rarely put our M60s on the tripod. Only in a Deliberate Defense. Same for the M2 .50cal. They stayed on the track. Unless again, we were going into a Deliberate Defense.

Machine guns genrally and tripod machine guns doulbly so, are a nightmare.
They are if you are in the Kill Zone. And the MG is in control of a well trained and experienced crew. Note: everyone in the Squad were trained to use all organic weapons plus some others.

but need accurate set up
Not necessarily … E.g. in an L-shaped Ambush besides setting up limiting stakes we kept them on the Bipod. And again the M249 SAW/LMG only had a Bipod … One of the Ranger instructors and Vietnam Vet he showed us how to use the sling to hang an M60 at the level of a prone GI. So the M60 hanging from a short sturdy branch/bush. Could traverse the Kill Zone with ease.

Plus we'd generally always give the M249 or M60 to a larger/bigger stronger Squad member. They could easily hold the weapon like a rifle. They would Not get the accuracy of being prone. But when sweeping across an OBJ, or Kill Zone, etc., they fired from the hip as well.

Just my 2 cents money … I don't know of any rules that go it to the detail you are asking for though …

UshCha14 Aug 2019 5:57 a.m. PST

Legion 4, Obviously the tripod is only for the Prepared defe=nxe where its on a triopd. There still remains how close to a frindly you can reasonabley (in desparation not neccesarily that safely) bring fire but thanks.

Legion 414 Aug 2019 6:47 a.m. PST

Yes, Glad to help. How close can you fire MGs safely near Friendlies ? I don't think we every covered that ? But as you know friendly fire losses sadly do happen.

As I said we used limiting stakes in an L-Shaped Amush to keep the MGs from traversing too far into Friendlies. And that fire would be only a few yards away … if that … regardless.

Also Danger Close for FA/Mortars is @ 300m , CAS @ 600m … not much help but it is a stat I know …

Lion in the Stars14 Aug 2019 9:52 a.m. PST

The only reference I've heard for how close you can get to an MG's stream of fire was in a Tom Clancy book. Setup was a prisoner rescue operation during the Vietnam war, and the rescuers had to run within 3 feet(!) of the stream of fire of the MGs. It was noted in the book that it was way closer than anyone wanted to be, but the camp layout didn't leave an alternative.

Just Jack Supporting Member of TMP14 Aug 2019 5:49 p.m. PST


I'm not sure where the 25 mils came from; the 'safety angle' under 1000 yards is 8mils for flanking fire and 5 mils for overhead fire, but mostly we would put a rough guesstimate of 15 degrees on it, which is actually a little bit bigger.

This came up before in conversation and a guy figured that this was just a peace-time range precaution, that we didn't really do that in combat. I replied that we absolutely stuck to that 15 degrees in combat as it's actually much safer on a range than in actual combat conditions, and riflemen that are worried about getting shot from the front by the bad guys really don't appreciate having to worry about getting shot in the back by the good guys.

"Technically if you stray more than that you need to move the tripod and screw up the settings."
Negative. If that's the situation you should be repositioning the gun into its supplementary position.

When you emplace a machine gun you pick that spot because it can cover your principle direction of fire (or PDF, a sector of fire your gun is responsible for in the overall company fire-plan) and your final protective line (a line that places fire across the front, or a piece of the front, of the unit's defensive position).

Within that position, you then pick a supplementary position, either to the left or the right (usually corresponding with which flank the gun is on), that is a right angle from your PDF, in case the enemy shows up in a place he wasn't expected.

Then you fall back a couple/few hundred meters and dig an alternate position, which can cover the same PDF as the primary. It will also have a supplementary position, though not able to cover the same area as the primary. This is why you see machine guns dug into L-shaped fighting positions; let's say the gun is emplaced. We're on the left flank, so the PDF is going to be to 12 o'clock, the FPL is going to be to 3 o'clock, and the supplementary position is going to be to the left, putting the new PDF at 9 o'clock.

The alternate position will be behind the primary, but the PDF will still be at 12 o'clock and the supplementary still at 9 o'clock, but it's a different axis than the previous 9 o'clock.

So, you're not screwing up the settings (the Range Card for the gun), the crew is actually trained to do that, as well as displace back to the alternate in a hurry.


Legion 415 Aug 2019 5:13 a.m. PST

Good intel Jack ! thumbs up I may have heard that when on active duty … but that was a long time ago. old fart But much of that you said is SOP too.

And yes, every MG when dug in or stays in a location for a while does a Range Card.

UshCha15 Aug 2019 9:33 a.m. PST

Thanks gents all good info.

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