"Police called to sort out historical wargamer" Topic

youtu.be/OUrAfp2A1bw

A very sad story of a UK school linking a child's A Very British Civil War wargaming figures to fascism. As result he was interviewed by anti-terror police. He sold his figures and he no longer plays historical wargames. His dad made a vid about it.

We really live in a crazy world and the vid needs to shared in our community.

Double bleep.

His family should sue the police and government for such ridiculousness and trauma.

5 Million Pounds sounds like a good starting price, not including legal fees, which are on top of that.

That's awful!

Utterly ridiculous that something like this can occur.

VBCW isn't historical gaming, it's fantasy.

The Police and School were wrong, though.

Truly Orwellian

1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a business model!

Thresher01 and gisbygeo why are you blaming the police or did you not watch the video? In the video, the dad says that the police conducted the interview as they are required to in these types of reported cases, and found there was no issue. The father even says that the police couldn't believe that the school called them and defends the police.

Now the school on the other hand seems to have been under the influence of some idiotic

A twenty+ year history teacher in my sister's school district in California was fired because a parent complained that he displayed a Confederate flag on his board (along with a U.S. Flag) during his American Civil War history unit. I spoke with a teacher in Gettysburg, PA last summer and he told me that his students were allowed to do a diorama of the battle of Gettysburg, BUT the figures could not have flags or weapons. Both of these schools were public schools.

I didn't watch the video, so am glad to hear the police were sensible.

Sue the school personnel instead.

Wonder if they'd be as concerned if the suspected socialist/communist tendencies?

That's crazy!

I just put on an American Revolution game for a 6th grade class a few weeks ago at my house. Their teacher brought the kids over and permission was given by the school for them to come. The kids had a great time playing and were very excited. 12 kids were here, and I live in California! Oh, I forgot to tell you that it was a private Christian School. Under no influence from the public Schools.

Sadly, I see no end to it ?

Politically correct crowd run amok.
And I can readily see this happening in California where I live.

it is sure a crazy world

Welcome to the 21st Century. I don't know why so many of you sound surprised.

Outrageous, Anton is right, the situation is globally Orwellian!!

Wow.I thought Colonial gaming would be the first.

Following on from Private Matter's point, he states they took action against the school and teacher concerned. Dredging my memory from a previous life, they may have been charged with wasting police time which can result in a sentence or fine, especially if it is proven to be malicious and/or causes distress (his wife's illness may count). Sounds to me like the police handled it correctly and that little bit of idiocy could prove dear…

The saddest part about this is that it has forced them away from historical gaming towards Warhammer (which WILL be an offence when I become Queen).

And using my memory from a previous life I think it highly unlikely that the school or teacher were charged with anything. Many here may not know that schools in England have a statutory duty to report when a student might be at risk of radicalisation.

How is a school/teacher able to judge whether or not that might be the case? Well, sometimes it might be obvious, but other times it might not. Who is best placed to determine if a student is at risk, the police/security services of course.

So the safest course of action for the school is to report the matter. Imagine a different scenario where the student is not playing VBCW with his dad, but instead is developing an interest in the imagery and politics of the British Union of Fascists all by themselves. In a tiny minority of cases this might lead down the path to radicalisation, and worse.

Now if you were the school that had the opportunity to report this, but failed to do so, then you would be liable to some severe sanctions, and worse. This is where our counter terrorism laws have now taken us. Schools too frightened of the possible consequences if they don't report something that the rest of us (who don't have their statutory duties) might see as completely harmless.

And going back to my first sentence, the police/CPS are not going to charge a school reporting something they are legally obliged to do, no matter how ridiculous it might appear to people frequenting a wargaming website.

The folks behind the VBCW rules should invite this youngster to a convention-quality game and pull out all the stops. He needs something good to remember after this debacle.

The young man is in college, which I think folks here are missing. The police are taking action against the professors and college from what the dad says, but due to legal stuff he won't talk about it. This is around the 3:20 mark.

I understand the trauma the family went through--wife became ill from the stress, they sold off their medieval and other figs but not VBCW. Good to hear they are going to get back into the hobby. I love how says they are probably keeping the VBCW stuff because "it's funny and annoys the right people."

I have no problems with 40K, as long as it's Rouge Trader or Epic.

Dollars to doughnuts, they will return to historical gaming eventually.

Sounds like the UK colleges are just like the US colleges.

+1 to Anton's comment. I will remember that.

I just followed what he said in the video (understanding this is only his side of the story) and note I used the word MAY.

He does say they explained what they were doing (easy enough considering the amount of VBCW stuff there is) and the school still reported him, so the ‘different scenario' is irrelevant. He also stated the police ‘took action' against the school, which indicates after investigation they thought it went deeper than a fear of getting nobbled under their statutory duty. Although this could be as minor as a stern talking to. Who knows? He doesn't go into detail.

To summarise: the police appear to have handled this correctly and the school/teacher could be prosecuted (s5(2) Criminal Law Act 1967 – I cheated and had to look it up), although I agree it would be unlikely as it may discourage genuine cases in the current radicalisation atmos.

Going back to Wertham and "Seduction of the Innocent", all the various "cult" busters, the people who first came into contact with D&D, Docteur Abgral in France etc. They all have something in common.

They have been on the other side. They have been among cults, criminality, terrorism and extreme groups.

They had to deal with layers of hidden meanings, obfuscation. So at first glance toy figures of the BUF sounds highly suspicious.

And from what I understand they did a thorough investigation and figured "Hey, it's just toys !" So the specialists figured there was no problem and the blame lies with the uneducated who saw something that scared them and they had a knee-jerk reaction.

I teach history courses at a university in the United States. In the last couple of years I have had a half a dozen students from the UK in my classes. Only one of them was familiar with the English Civil War (the real one, not the one that is the subject of this post). While American youths may not be very familiar with the history of their country, their ignorance of historical matters is not greater than most other people in the modern world. That said, I will admit that my Spanish, Hungarian and Serbian students are a little more familiar with the histories of their countries than most other students are concerning their own national histories.

So it is a typical case of over-reaction leading to a police call. Happens every day for a variety of reasons.

@ Mister Tibbles

I now have a vision in my mind of a spacecraft crossing the galaxy with a full load of cosmetics ……

Of course we are hearing one side. The "kid" laughs and smiles throughout the video. I am skeptical as to whether this actually happened in a manner described. Any other sources available? I googled, but nothing came up.

the school/teacher could be prosecuted (s5(2) Criminal Law Act 1967

Seriously? Did you actually read that section when you looked it up? Where's the false report? Do you understand any aspect of the government's Prevent Strategy and how it impacts schools etc.?

different scenario' is irrelevant.

Hardly. It's pointing out the potential difficulties that schools etc. face when presented with situations like this. They are not the investigators and don't have the powers or facilities to delve much deeper into the issue. Their duty is clear and it is to pass on any concerns to the appropriate authority. If there is any fault here it lies with the legislation and not the school.

A very sad story of a UK school linking a child's A Very British Civil War wargaming figures to fascism. As result he was interviewed by anti-terror police. He sold his figures and he no longer plays historical wargames. His dad made a vid about it.

As far as I can tell from the clip, the school teachers didn't so much link the figures (which would be so stupid as to stretch credulity) as the fascist flag they wanted to use as a prop for their battle report videos. Not that that makes it less awful for the family though.

1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a business model!

Damn SKIPPY!!!

"(…)his students were allowed to do a diorama of the battle of Gettysburg, BUT the figures could not have flags or weapons. "

The revisionists would have you believe the battle was resolved with a competitive Dance Off (no doubt there would also be objections to playing the period music in the background…)

I am sure next time they close down on the chess tournament because they focus on black vs. white…

Deephorse

Again, I am following the – one sided view – of events from the video, hence the use of the words MAY and COULD and the comment about the police TAKING ACTION against the school/teacher. We don't know what the original report was to ascertain it was false or not. It could have been ‘we have a kid being radicalised by his fascist dad' or ‘we have a kid playing a toy soldiers with his dad based on a notion that Mosley becomes PM' or whatever. So they could have over-egged what was going on to the Rozzers or the parents came out with genuinely worrying stuff during the interview or the teachers lied because teachers SHOCK HORROR! are not always decent human beings. Who knows x 2?

BTW folks, under prevent they do have the option of calling the anti-terrorist hotline amongst other options to discuss the situation. But authorities are still expected to act with common sense.

Again, we are just getting one side of the story and he might even be making it all up for attention. Who knows x 3? Personally, as soon as he plonked Warhammer on the table I was going to call Social Services.

Back to toys and silly puns now…

I really should find something useful to do and I promise this will be the last post, but consider this:

He's giving up historical gaming, which is easy to explain away and is in a wider sense educational (all my girls teachers know what I get up to) and carrying on with VBCW, which isn't and dropped him in the poo in the first place.

Now, if it were me, VBCW would hold the horrible memories and I would give it up. But he is doing it because it also ‘annoys the right people'. Wonder if that was an attitude prior or post event? Who knows x 4….?

@Jeffers,

But who would get annoyed by someone playing VBCW?

And anyway, it seems from what the chap says that it was trying to obtain the flag that caused the drama, not the toy soldiers?

Whirlwind – his words, not mine. Which is all everybody has to go on here.

Argh! I've posted again! Can I stifle myself?

Perris 0707 posted:
'A twenty+ year history teacher in my sister's school district in California was fired because a parent complained that he displayed a Confederate flag on his board (along with a U.S. Flag) during his American Civil War history unit. I spoke with a teacher in Gettysburg, PA last summer and he told me that his students were allowed to do a diorama of the battle of Gettysburg, BUT the figures could not have flags or weapons. Both of these schools were public schools.'

This is, IMHO, far more disturbing than the rather trivial, and satisfactorily resolved, issue raised in the video.

@Jeffers,

I agree. It just seemed odd.

What's the moral to these sad stories? It really makes a difference who gets elected/appointed to your local school board.

Ignore at your own (and your children's) risk.

B

No weapons in a military diorama? i suspect straw man building is going on here. Blowhards love straw men.

Hmmm. No report of this returned by Google apart from wargaming forums …

You must love the term straw man Aethelflaeda.

Hmmm. No report of this returned by Google apart from wargaming forums …

Why would there be?

Erase history at your own peril

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"