"Early Roman/ Early Republican shields question." Topic

Ok dipping the proverbial toe into 28mm Ancients, possibly with "Clash of Spears" rules and thinking about an early Roman force. My very basic understanding is that prior to Marius's reforms, the Roman soldier of the day was a part time militia member. Probably a farmer providing service in time of need. Would he provide his own shield and armour? as in the case of the Greek Hoplite (Individually decorated shield depending on status, most I assume would be as simple as possible due to cost) or would the kit come from a district arsenal, in which case I can see how a more "uniformed" standard decoration for shields would benefit in defining communal ownership and hence I would surmise the start of the Legion concept.

Reason I ask Is I'm weighing up which LBMS decals to use and whilst the group shields are stunning, they suggest to me a level of group organisation that is perhaps optimistic for the early Roman City states. Any input and suggestions greatly appreciated.

The same question most people ask when thinking about building a Republican Roman army! Really, there's no way to know and the shield designs are entirely conjecture. The few comments on shields used by the Roman forces at this time don't lend a great deal of credence one way or the other. What you said makes perfect sense and chances were that most units had different shield colors/designs, but I would just go with the LBMS transfers.

For now I think using the regular shield [patterns to define higher status warriors, with individual patterned shields to represent the general warriors them might be a way to go at this stage.

Thankyou for the input, as I say it's a period I know very little about at this stage, but interesting in that at a skirmish level I imagine it helps to level the field on a man to man basis as the stereotypical Legionary hasn't quite evolved yet. Nor the state to back him up.

I think it is not a bad idea and it would look nice to mix some of the LBS shield transfers…

I have victrix and foundry.. my victrix I have some with a standard pattern, some mixed.. my foundry have plain shields but I mix the colors..

I think they look fun mixed

How early are you thinking?

I wouldn't dismiss the level of group organisation possible in the pre-Marius period. On an industrial scale, look at the way they used mass production techniques in 260 BC to build a fleet of 120 ships in the space of 60 days, using ideas which they had just learnt by copying a captured ship.

However…
_Some_ equipment could be state provided as soldiers could have their pay docked to cover the cost. This makes it pretty clear that most equipment was provided by the individual. What that means for shield devices can only be guesswork. The way that legions were originally assembled meant that a man did not know in advance which legion he was going to be in (if Polybius's account is right). This could mean that shields were a whole range of colours and/or designs.

Little is known about shield designs though there are a couple of probable examples. They are pretty simple though. A possible one is on the 'fish mosaic' in Palestrina, though that may be a non-Roman shield.
If shields were patterned with simple designs, it may have nothing to do with cost – it could be a cultural thing. At various times in the period of the Republic, flashy foreigners are contrasted with more austere Romans – it is used in a moralistic way but often enough that if it were not based on a degree of reality then the readers would find it odd.
I don't think there is any actual evidence for the LBMS style with animals on the legionary shields (though IIRC there is a possible wolf on a cavalry shield shown on a coin).
We know from an example in the 2nd Punic War that newly arrived troops could be identified by their shields. This could mean e.g.
a) the shield devices were all the same in each unit, but different between units (as generally thought to be the case in the Empire)
b) the legion which had been together long enough had had time to paint all the shields the same
c) the new shields were still in good condition
d) something else!

I'm going to show my total newbie ignorance here, yes an opportunity for some fantastic research which is part of the interest of a new project! I love the Aventine miniatures Hill Tribe/ Late Etruscan figures and was hoping to start a force with these. So that would be very early Rome, to the uninitiated like myself that puts a force at around the time of Romulus and Remus and possibly the Gallic sack of Rome.(Great because then I've a justifiable excuse to get Gauls and Samnites from Victrix. Then hoping to possibly morph parts of this into an early Republican period warband and also bring in the Iberians for campaigns.

In terms of the earlier Hill tribes/ Early Roman force it puts on the table a force which isn't the indestructible "meat grinder" of later years and presents a force you don't often see. Inter tribal warfare at the very start of Rome! Even at this stage would there be some form of standardisation? I'm just trying to imagine a farmer having the creative skills to decorate his individual shield. In which case would you have one artisan working on shields for say the village/ town, in which case they may well have had one favoured design.

Really impressive brushwork and terrain by the way Seldon!

So, that kind of army you are mentioning will be covered under our Italian tribes… you will select the main tribe that depending on the type of tribe, etruscan, oscan, samnite etc with slightly different fighting style and you could mix other tribes as allies..

I would think that certainly at that point we are talking about lots of nice different not standardized designs

Little Big Men studios has some nice shield transfers for aventine miniatures ( which are beautiful ) …

BTW, we are working to release a translation from a fantastic book by an italian author that covers the rise of rome.. with the same style of art that we have in our rulebook…

So hopefully that will be good reading material…

_Really_ early then! (Though from Romulus to the Sack of Rome is a good few centuries).

I'd use the Etruscans as examples (as they were neighbours, occasional rulers and there is better surviving imagery). So individual shield designs on the rich (round) shields carried by the I class. See Peter Connolly's picture of Lars Porsenna for a reasonable portrayal of late 6th early 5th century.
The lower class (II, III and IV iirc) rectangular shields may well have been plain. Perhaps some very simple design – perhaps stars like various people including the Samnites used. Possibly unpainted.

While they were farmers etc. called up to fight, they were doing so often enough that they knew they were going to need the kit, so it wasn't going to be made in a hurry (unless it was a replacement). Supposedly, the temple of Janus only closed its doors during times of peace – and they were continuously open for 400 years.

Awesome insights Swampster !

If I recall correctly there were occasions when, in dire emergency, Republican Rome raised legions from slaves and prisoners. Now these could not be expected to provide their own equipment, but I do not recall seeing anything in the sources which implies that equipping them was in any way unusual for the state. Can anyone else, better informed or more widely read than I am, help on this?

The most famous example is after Cannae. 8000 slaves were purchased from their owners and organised into legions. At the same time, very young men were called up. As for how they were armed…
"They [the senate] order that arms, weapons, and other things should be prepared; and they take down from the temples and porticoes the old spoils taken from the enemy."

Since this is mentioned _before_ talking about the slaves, the youngsters may also have received arms of this sort. These _may_ have been only once source of weaponry, making up a shortage of arms rather than being the only source.

Some translations say 'armed and paid for at public expense', others only 'paid for at public expense'.

Also in Livy, and again after Cannae, 6000 prisoners are freed and armed with weapons carried in the triumph of C. Flaminius (so Gallic arms captured in the campaign after Telamon and perhaps including ones from that battle).

Thanks Swampster, brilliant response!

thanks to all, superb input and demonstrates the true value of the TMP Hive Mind :-)

Much appreciated.

As for designs they could have used stencils. Certainly stamps were used to mass produce designs in metal.

For new citizen levies it could be a case of supplying the shield in a standard colour and the correct symbols would be added once they got to their unit.

I've done Romans with plain shields, mixed, complex, etc.

In the end, the visual power of 150-200 guys carrying the same shield design is just something special. I just re-shielded 200 Foundry Romans with LBMS transfers. 2/3 had one design, and 1/3 with a slightly different one for triarii. It looks terrific.

I agree with Lucius. All my Punic Romans have plain bright red shields and it looks great. Plus I don't think it is historically likely that Romans this early had shield designs.

200 foundry romans !

we need pictures !

Regarding where shields came from…
In the 2nd PW, at one point the Romans receive a lot of supplies from various Etruscan cities. This includes 30000 shields from Arretium.
Each city seems to concentrate on a specific type of resource – Arretium is the main supplier of weapons and armour. This suggests that the armaments have been made to order, not just collected from the populace (or each city would likely have supplied a proportion).
This is late in the war, so may show that the home-owned resources were already in use or lost.
It is much later than the period in the OP's request but shows how the Republic had started to go.

Thankyou guys as ever for the quality informative expertise, very much appreciated.