"Where did the phalanx put its standard?" Topic
9 Posts
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22 Jul 2019 9:07 p.m. PST by Editor in Chief Bill
- Changed title from "Where did the phalanx put it's standard?" to "Where did the phalanx put its standard?"
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AegonTheUnready | 22 Jul 2019 5:55 p.m. PST |
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Martian Root Canal | 22 Jul 2019 8:37 p.m. PST |
Good question. Most of what we know comes from later sources. To be honest, in all my gaming years I have never painted a phalanx standard. What references I was able to find are from Hellenistic times and they are inconclusive. This article is the most detailed, but admits that much is speculation: link The author argues that the primary command tool was the bugle, and that the standard was for marches. During battle, it would almost have to be at the rear or outside the body of the phalanx lest it disrupt the frontage. |
Royston Papworth | 22 Jul 2019 11:33 p.m. PST |
Would the commander carry a like too? So as not to create a weak point in the frontage. |
bsrlee | 23 Jul 2019 5:16 a.m. PST |
IIRC (it has been many years since I read it) Asclepiodotus seems to suggest that there was a command group which stood out the front but withdrew to the rear when the enemy got close, probably about the time they may have 'doubled' the files. Mr. A was a 'theoretical' writer, everything was b based on doubling, files were normally 16 men deep, but could countermarch to 8 deep – larger units were 32, 64, 128, 256 etc men. One of the other duties of the command group was to stop troops from running away by killing the runners. |
mckrok | 23 Jul 2019 9:07 a.m. PST |
I put mine in back of the formation. pjm |
BigRedBat | 23 Jul 2019 9:12 a.m. PST |
On a small command stand that can go front or rear. |
JJartist | 23 Jul 2019 9:48 a.m. PST |
Standards are listed as supernumaries, of which each section of a phalanx had a group. An overall officer, signallers, runners, and musician, and a standard. As stated above, they would lead the unit until in battle line, then withdraw through the gaps to the rear. Most people prefer to have their command figures in line at the front because that makes for a better game presentation. With pike phalanxes it looks a little better to have the musician and standard in the second rank so that wall of pikes looks more impressive. Placement in the rear is cool looking too and allows a place for markers to lurk. David Karunanithy has written what I called "No better single volume on the Macedonian Army is currently in print" in 2014. He has a chapter on Leaders and standards and all the newest evidence up to that date. The Macedonian War Machine 359-281 BC Hardcover – December 3, 2013 by David Karunanithy (Author) link |
Damion | 23 Jul 2019 3:45 p.m. PST |
Good question. If you think about what a standard is for, being able to see your own unit, then a formation with lots of pikes is going to make that difficult if not impossible. That would suggest that any standards were not carried in the formation during combat as they would not be visible. The other thing is that such units tended to stick together so it was not needed to worry about where your unit core was. I suspect standards became more common as more open forms of combat developed including cavalry skirmishes and the sword and shield focused fight of the Romans and Celts. |
williamb | 23 Jul 2019 4:13 p.m. PST |
@Bincon Officers would also carry the sarissa. They would be distinguished by additional feathers or plumes attached to their helmets. Companion cavalry and cataphract officers most likely carried the xyston like the troops they commanded. See the Alexander Mosaic which shows Alexander charging with the xyston at the head of his companions. I never included standard bearers with my phalanx units though they are mentioned by Asclepiodotus. The later Tercios of the Thirty Years War had the standards in the middle of the pike block where they would not interfere with the pikes. |
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