"Irish Holocaust: The Mass Graves of Ireland, ...." Topic

…. THE ‘FAMINE' IS A MYTH

"Ireland in 1845-1850 was entirely owned by English landlords, many of them Lords temporal or spiritual, in estates typically of tens of thousands of acres. Their land titles were conquest-based.

On these estates the Irish were tenants-at-will on holdings of typically three to eight acres the rent of which they paid by, typically, 260 days of work annually on the landlord's estate.

In previous centuries the Irish, under British rule, were non-persons, stripped of legal personhood excepting five septs. As murder requires personhood: the Irish were thus legally killable by any English person at will. Education was prohibited…"
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Amicalement
Armand

Hmmm. 12,000 constabulary for a population the author estimates at 12,000,000. That's one-third the police per citizen in the US today. No mention whatever of food imports to Ireland in the period, which are documented. The Irish got a rough deal, no argument. But it was a better deal as the 19th Century went on, which he misses altogether.

Still, what are facts and reason when you can have a holocaust of your very own?

The Irish famine is probably the worst stain on British history. A population of 8 million in 1845 was down to 4 million by 1860 and did not start to recover until 1960. Britain in the same time frame went from 15 million to 38 million in 1950.
The famine hit the poorest in society mainly in the west of Ireland. These people had been subsisting on a potato and dairy diet that when in sufficient quantity gave subsistence. The potato blight that struck all Europe was worse in Ireland due to lack of access to other foods. This is not that they were not available but they were cash crops required for rents paid up through levels of tenants and sub tenants. In previous famines in the 1700s Britain had closed the ports and pushed this product back into the countryside. However an era of free trade and repeal of the corn laws lead political dogma to over ride practical measures. Food stuffs were imported for distribution but too little and too late. The remote British Parliament failed to grasp the enormity of the crisis.
An over populated Island, a complacent remote Parliament and a rampant blight killed 2 million people and forced countless millions to emigrate.

It happened. One half of the population starved to death, or was sent starving on ships, if lucky they survived.

They were police state at the time,they had no rights in their own homeland.

Yet, to the best of my knowledge there had never been an apology for their opressor who killed over 5 million!

Current best estimates are of 1 to 1.5 million deaths directly attributable to famine. Emigration increased massively (Between 1815 and 1845 1 million had already emigrated to America).
The Penal laws were gone by 1790s. Edmund Rice was founding Christian Brothers and Presentation Schools (Catholic schools) in the early 1800s. O'Connell gained the vote for Catholics in 1829. It is not correct to project the Ireland of 1750 onto the Ireland of 1850.
A Police State? While there was sporadic violence caused by sectarian difference and by the collection on Tithes there was no overriding police dominance of society. The large peaceful demonstrations against the tithe law caused its repeal in 1838. There was a growing pressure for land reform that would blossom after the famine.

And which was not realized for many, many more years.

So, there were no excessive amounts of British troops in Ireland during the famine years?

Perhaps I am mistaken..

The British Army had about 90,000 men in 1840 of whom about a third were Irish (inline with the population balance). Over half were scattered around the world with around half that remainder in Irish garrisons, about 25,000 men. Excessive for a population of 8 million? (There are 2 million USA military for 320 million people)
Were they used in crowd control, certainly, and there are a number of events where shots were fired and civilians killed. But you can point at similar events in the UK at that time and across into the USA.
OConnell and others in the 1830s caused large demonstrations, 100,000 plus people reported, to occur yet other than the expected problems these were peaceful events. I struggle to see what I would consider a police state at that time.

As I mentioned in my last post perhaps I am mistaken. You appear to be an authority and have your facts.

I do know that when the last of my ancestors left in 1873 they still paid rents on the land they once owned at one time to their landowners.

Land Reform is the forgotten driver of the Irish move to independence. While all focus seems to go to the 1916 rising and the fighting of 1919 to 1921, west of the Shannon land issues continued to dominate. Cattle drives, occupation of farms and boycotts happened through this period. Larger land holders (both Irish and British) were being forced to give up their land. When the first Dails were being elected there was a sizeable vote went to the Farmers party and to candidates promising land Reform.

But it was a better deal as the 19th Century went on, which he misses altogether.

I've read that food relief actually declined, for political reasons.

There is the often reported but unconfirmed story of the Turkish Sultan who offered 10,000 pounds in aid. The British Ambassador asked for him to reduce this as Queen Victoria had only given 2,000. He thus gave 1,000. But it is reported that he sent ships with food directly to Drogheda. A plaque commemorating this generosity stands in the town today.

hi

check out this y tube series on the famine

YouTube link

Interesting series Wackmole9.