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"Need help with Kriegsspiel rules." Topic

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Krommer6mm14 Jul 2019 8:11 a.m. PST

I've come across the old Kriegsspiel rules and i'am trying to create my own tabletop but i'm concerd that i wont have sufficient players so i am looking for a ruleset that doesn't need umpires and can be played faster. Thank you for the help in advance.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP14 Jul 2019 8:39 a.m. PST

Assuming you want to game big battles of the period I'd strongly suggest either Volley & Bayonet or Bloody Big Battles.

Both allow you to game multiple wars, are fast and quick to learn, and give plausible results. Both also have scenario books available to help you get started.




nnascati Supporting Member of TMP14 Jul 2019 5:37 p.m. PST

A few years ago, I jumped excitedly onto the Kriegsspiel bandwagon. I had pieces made by Litko, I bough the rules and maps from the Lardies, I even made a special box to hold everything. But, it just doesn't work unless you have a couple other folks really interested and into the whole concept to have a good time with it.

sgt Dutch15 Jul 2019 3:16 a.m. PST

nnascati is right. If you can't get anyone interested. You are wasting your time. Been there with SAGA. Big lay out in cash but no one interested.

Krommer6mm15 Jul 2019 4:54 a.m. PST

Thank you for your answers but exactly for the reason that i lack players is why i am looking for a ruleset that can be played with just 2-4 people. It doesn't need to be exactly Kriegsspiel but somthing similar, without the need of actual miniature figuers and using maps instead of terrain. I'm a bit tight with my budget so i'm planing of making my own pieces so if someone could help me with that too, it would be amazing.

Thank you in advance.

ChrisBBB2 Supporting Member of TMP15 Jul 2019 5:01 a.m. PST

Here's a recent map-and-counters exercise fighting Gettysburg with BBB:


Bloody Big BATTLES!

Krommer6mm15 Jul 2019 6:37 a.m. PST

I think i`ll take a look at BBB.
Do you know where can i purchase it in a PDF version?

ChrisBBB2 Supporting Member of TMP15 Jul 2019 8:58 a.m. PST

Sorry but there is no PDF version of BBB available.

Print copies available from various retailers eg Brigade Games or On Military Matters in the US, or Caliver Books in the UK.


arthur181516 Jul 2019 1:31 a.m. PST

Actually, you don't need to abandon the Kriegsspiel rules, just use the movement ranges, shooting and close combat systems to run a face to face tabletop game!

When a friend and I first obtained Bill Leeson's translation of Kriegsspiel we did exactly that, in order to familiarise ourselves with the rules so we could umpire games in future.

We set up a simple artillery bombardment of, and infantry attack upon, a defended hamlet and played it through, using the rules as if we were playing a conventional, 'open' wargame. The rules were quite easy to follow and gave very convincing results. And they must be the only wargame rules actually written by a veteran of those wars!

Conversely, if one adopted the duplicate maps/battlefield displays required for a true kriegsspiel, there is no reason why the umpires could not use a modern set of rules to determine the effects of shooting and close combat. The principles of a 'closed' wargame and the rules used are not inextricably linked.

Krommer6mm16 Jul 2019 4:15 a.m. PST

Thanks arthur1815.
The reality is that i've never wargamed before and i just wanted to start so i think i don't really have that deep understanding of the rules and how they should be played decently so could you explain your prespective of the game with more detail if that's not too much to ask? I would be interested in how did you create the maps and the figures, if they where historical or you just made them up, which version of Kriegsspiel did you play and a bit more detailed description of how did you change the rules.
It would be of great help.
Thanks in advance.

arthur181516 Jul 2019 4:39 a.m. PST

Happy to help!

We used the Meckel Map – a fictitious map, specifically designed for Kriegsspiel, published by Bill Leeson originally, but now available from the TooFatLardies.

Personally, I've always used the 1824 version by Von Reiiswitz (translated into English by Bill) as it corresponds to my interest in the Napoleonic Wars.

Which version do you have, please? If we have the same one, I can use page references in my explanations.

Funnily, Bill himself had not wargamed previously, but had painted armies of 25mm figures for which he was looking for rules. He came across Kriegsspiel, translated it into English and then used maps and troop blocks, so the toy soldiers remained in their cupboard and never saw action!

Regards, Arthur

Krommer6mm16 Jul 2019 4:55 a.m. PST

Thanks a lot!
The reality is that i don't even have the game so i'm really a beginner. Which version do you think is the best or fits this kind of game style that i want to play?
If you think it woud be easier to continue the conversation in email or other forum here is my adress:


arthur181516 Jul 2019 5:21 a.m. PST

I'd recommend the 1824 version as it is somewhat shorter and simpler. And if you are interested in Napoleonics, it suits that period best. The Meckel Map is fine for use with it – just ignore the railway line!
I'll email you again privately directly later today.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Jul 2019 6:53 a.m. PST


Reading through your posts, it occurs to me you may want to start with a board game. It would have everything you need in one box (maps, counters and rules) and be easy on the budget.

Commands and Colors Napoleonics might be a good place to start. It is a fun game and if it proves popular you can add the game expansion kits.

Many people then take the leap to miniatures and replace the wood blocks in the game with 6mm or 15mm miniatures.

If the game proves a dud, re-sell it on or Ebay….

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