"TN Gov. signs Nathan Bedford Forrest Day proclamation" Topic

Gov. Bill Lee has proclaimed Saturday as Nathan Bedford Forrest Day in Tennessee, a day of observation to honor the former Confederate general and early Ku Klux Klan leader whose bust is on display in the state Capitol.

Per state law, the Tennessee governor is tasked with issuing proclamations for six separate days of special observation, three of which, including the July 13 Forrest Day, pertain to the Confederacy.

Lee — and governors who have come before him — are also required by state law to proclaim Jan. 19 as Robert E. Lee Day, honoring the commander of the Confederate Army, as well as June 3 Confederate Decoration Day, otherwise known as Confederate Memorial Day and the birthday of Confederate President Jefferson Davis.

Is this a joke? Endorsing a celebration of secessionists and racists?

I observe that the man was a military mastermind, Racist and traitor but at least the Klan ended up being even more than he could stand.

Nope. Not a joke. Perhaps a deeper look into the man will give a different perspective.

Joe Collins

He started the Klan as a veteran's organization for Confederate veterans. He resigned after about 18 months because he didn't like the direction it was going in. He spent the last several years of his life trying to destroy the Klan.

Most people know the former. Sadly, very few know the latter.

He started the Klan as a veteran's organization for Confederate veterans. He resigned after about 18 months because he didn't like the direction it was going in. He spent the last several years of his life trying to destroy the Klan.

Most people know the former. Sadly, very few know the latter.

Not surprisingly, Dr Frankenstein isn't cut a lot of slack for similar actions.

The murder of Union soldiers at Fort Pillow doesn't seem to enter the equation either.

Sigh…..

War is hell. Murder of the enemy is the goal. It has always been…and will always be. To try and justify such for one side over another may make one feel good, but in the end it is just hypocrisy.

Better I think is to try to understand historical figures as the men that they were…in the times that they lived.

To do otherwise speaks more about us than them.

Joe Collins

No "special days" for individuals like Longstreet who rejected the lost cause myth and worked for all citizens of a unified nation. Great individuals are those that transcend the strictures of their time and own prejudices and try and create something better, even if imperfectly. This celebrates Forrest as a "military figure". David G Farragut was a great military figure from Tennessee who had more impact on winning the war but not celebrated. I wonder what's going on …

The Fort Pillow massacre was regarded as criminal at the time and Forrest was lucky not to be hanged after the war.

I think it is absurd to try and airbrush figures like Forrest out of history, but I don't think that they should be celebrated either.

Murder of the enemy is the goal.

I think not. Nor would any present or past servicemen thank you for labelling them murderers. Forrest's actions were outside the rules of war.

Something to read:
PDF link

My personal view is that Forrest's actions make him a Terrorist. I'm not a fan of ISIS or Al Qaeda. The Stern Gang or the IRA. I can not see any difference between them & Forrest.

AussieAndy, you took the words out of my mouth.

Just go to the record of the Memphis newspaper for Forrest's death and the mass of people that sent words of praise from across the country, even Washington D.C., and the description of those that attended the funeral, observed the procession to his resting place and watched the burial, it can give you a little better understanding. Don't always rely upon modern narrative.

Clueless. Utterly clueless. No one ever looks beyond the most simple and immediate information on ANYTHING, and all the public will see is "Confederate" and "Klan". Politicians' ability to act as morons just makes me shake my head.

I could understand this being done 150 years ago, but not now with many having the idea that everything and anyone Confederate was toxic.

Regardless of how black or white Forrest's character may be, it seems this is an established tradition from some time past legally required of the governor. Given that, those local to Tennessee can work to change the law regarding these Confederate figure holidays, but the fact that the governor carried out his legal duty this year does not seem of great note.

I'm not sure the intent of the original poster but it seems like there is a definite troll-ish taste to it.

Chris

I am heartened by the general reaction in this thread to the posting of this "celebration" of Nathan Bedford Forrest. it appears that some sea-change may be occurring in this nation, and in the hobby, about the essential immorality of some military leaders and forces. A recognition of the historical facts and role of some events is fine, celebrating them, contrary to their obvious lack of any shred of a positive reason to do so, is a blindness to history and its judgements.

As for politicians, they have an uncanny ability to reflect their electorate and seldom rise above their voter's prejudices, biases, and ignorance. It's a rare politician that rises above their base voters. They're called leaders. We seem to have a shortage of these of late.

"We have met the enemy and it is us!"-as Pogo said many years ago.

"As for politicians, they have an uncanny ability to reflect their electorate and seldom rise above their voter's prejudices, biases, and ignorance. It's a rare politician that rises above their base voters. They're called leaders. We seem to have a shortage of these of late."

Unless they disagree with you. Then they're called many things that would be bleeped if I typed them out.

anyone Confederate was toxic.

If anyone read the pdf link I posted above, I think there's a clear distinction to be drawn between honourable warriors fighting for an appalling cause (the perpetuation of slavery) and immoral warriors such as Forrest.

I would hardly think it defensible to put Lee & Longstreet with the likes of NBF or Bloody Bill Anderson et al.

The Southern Cavalier of The Lost Cause narrative rides again!

Outstanding,

Have Phun in the Hoosegow, Benito!

Secesh IS 100% correct. The South DOES have heroes, in the form of GH Thomas, Farragut and, indeed, Longstreet to name but a few.

I already knew both sides of the NB Forrest argument and even understand, but Fort Pillow was NOT War, but pure blood lust and murder.

All in all … I think this was a bad decision … For many reasons. Some already mentioned here.

Contrary to popular myth, not all issues have two sides. Some don't even have one side!

There are a number of counties and cities, schools and other significant items (lakes, parks, bridges, etc) that were named and remain named for Confederate leaders. No problem with them.
Yankees and (other) foreigners might as well stay out of this one. It is none of your business in the end.

foreigners might as well stay out of this one

Parochial, what?

And a number of past Tenn governors did not bother to sign and proclaim the bill yearly, even if it is mandated. Some folks have the grace to not worship the past and try to whitewash it.

Dan

No whitewash, history good and bad happened. If the locals want to acknowledge it then ok. In other parts of the country I have seen places named for thieves, kills and crooked politicians. No difference.

Stay out of this one? Just like the way that the USA has never interfered in the internal affairs of other countries?

Yankees and (other) foreigners might as well stay out of this one. It is none of your business in the end.

As one of the Johnny Foreigners that RudyNelson alludes to, if a German governor of Saxony-Anhalt declared a Reinhard Heydrich Day, there might be some objection.

I find it amazing the way that this war is a living reality to people in the former Confederate states, or rural parts of the North who seem to be embracing the cause.

No one is saying that all aspects of history should not be noted. Many here feel that some persons and some events should not be celebrated or honored because they were traitors, war criminals, slaveholders, murderers, and law breakers.

138 SquadronRAF- to find answers to why some areas of the US embrace these terrible causes, simply overlay maps of educational attainment, income generation, health and lifespan, firearm distribution, international trade and amount of international travel and you will see a near perfect match of areas that do and do not accept this nonsense.

+1, Repiqueone

Sadly true, in the main, Repiqueone.

Dan

More 'educational attainment' is just more time in the system being indoctrinated. After all there isn't that much history (if any) required in college these days so it is not as if those with more education actually have more knowledge of historical events – they just have been taught how to view them.

As to compare Forrest to Heydrich…

Maybe Wellington, although Fort Pillow involved troops who didn't accept surrenders rather than the rape and killing of allied civilians.

Cromwell was of course from an age when granting quarter was more optional than in the ACW. On the other hand his attitude toward 'papists' certainly compares to the Klan's and the policies proposed for the Irish while he was Protector would have made the Klan envious…

goragrad, you seem to think that a college education is akin to a trade school where people specialize in a single subject, while this has been a trend, particularly in various for-profit, online, or religious schools, it is still not a correct view of most university educations.

Most undergrads do declare a major and minor, but almost all true universities require some core curriculum that includes literature, science, history and in some schools, languages. Liberal Arts Schools, often private, are particularly strong in this regard. Just being among a wide range of cultures and backgrounds is broadening.

Many employers now look for people with liberal arts degrees as they search for hires that can deal with cultural change, international trends, technology impacts, and want a more flexible workforce and more generalist minds.

In particular, college can create people with a more nuanced and analytic view of subjects, including history, than your average person in Podunk, Kansas. As far as indoctrination, have you ever lived in or visited a small town? The social coercion is extremely effective in inducing a rather monolithic social, religious, and political environment. Show me a small town rebel and I'll show you someone who leaves for a bigger city as soon as they can.

I would hope that modern society would make some advances over Cromwell and Forrest's eras. Simply saying that it was done in 1650 or 1863 does not make it acceptable, either then or now. And, yes, one can judge these acts and persons by today's standards without qualification. Inhumanity, intolerance, abuse, murder, and inflicting harm of any sort for no reason other than prejudice and hate is just evil in any era.

Stay out of this one? Just like the way that the USA has never interfered in the internal affairs of other countries?

Seriously I doubt generally anything anyone says here or many places elsewhere on the net will really effect the internal affairs of any country. Save of another nation hacking and/or making "false" comments, etc., in a concerted effort to undermine, influence, etc. E.g. like we saw during the last US election. And … Oh yeah don't forget the advertising industry.

Regardless, you, me, them, etc., have no real power or ability to influence much of anything we do or say, especially here generally.

And the South shall rise again.

Some [especially ember-stoking politicians] can never admit their opinions are on the wrong side of history.

Others "proclaim" this sort of BS speaks truth to power – insert "White", and get even closer to the truth.

Perception is more important than the truth.
It was the first thing you learned in so many classes in both college and the army. We got that saying the first day in campaign management. Taught by a retired Congressman.

Yankees and (other) foreigners might as well stay out of this one. It is none of your business in the end.

Sure it is; we love helping third world states join the modern era. :)