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"Is TMP becoming too commercial?" Topic

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17 Aug 2005 8:13 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "Is TMP becoming too commerical?" to "Is TMP becoming too commercial?"

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1,396 hits since 17 Aug 2005
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

vojvoda Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 7:16 p.m. PST

Guys, I was thinking about TMP this evening and reviewing some of the current postings I started to wonder. Is TMP becoming a mouth piece of the hobby industry? Now to be fair I am a sponsor and owe TMP money so I am technically part of the problem but looking at the overall picture are we as TMPers in danger of becoming a spam-o-gram of hobby Snake and Oil Hucksters?
James Mattes

The Gonk Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 7:21 p.m. PST


Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP17 Aug 2005 7:23 p.m. PST

I don't think so. What is "News of the hobby", but new product releases? Rules, figures and terrain. Cut that out, and why visit? To read a cranky Old Fart whine about something? I doubt it.

As for Snake Oil Hucksters, there isw a heck of a lot of Freedom of the Press here. Bill let's us say anythign at all about the people who pay his bills.
What is a week on TMP without:
1) Foundry Bashing
2) Games Workshop bashing
3) HMGS East bashing. Sorry, James. Had to throw that in!
4) Hasslefree Big Weapons bashing. (Sorry, Sally!)
5) Urban Mammoth bashing.
6) Starship Trooper bashing.
7) Celtos big weapon bashing.
8) Insert Name Here bashing.

If this site were mere commercial hackery, none of the above would be allowed.

CaseyNOVA Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 7:24 p.m. PST

I know TMP rocked harder before the Black Album.

Sell outs!

kendawgga Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 7:32 p.m. PST

are you kidding. Its the best open source of information on the web, allowing anyone to post opinions and news as well as providing links to all the places I visit.
I ignore a lot and pick and choose what I want.

Grumbling Grognard Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 7:37 p.m. PST

Casey Work: LOL! That is almost word for word what I was about to post! :-)

Kendawgga: "I ignore a lot and pick and choose what I want."
Yep, but that goes for the entire internet does it not?


RodofAlphaForgeGames Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 7:39 p.m. PST

"Its the best open source of information on the web, allowing anyone to post opinions and news "

Amen -

and also with a surprising degree of gentlemanly, or lady like, civility when compared to many other gaming forums, if I might add….:P

Toodle pip,

Rod – Alpha Forge Games

CaseyNOVA Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 7:43 p.m. PST

Great minds think alike :)

Ambassador Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 7:43 p.m. PST

No, Christmas is too commercial. TMP is just about as it should be.

Thomas the Sailor Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 7:46 p.m. PST

OFM, you forgot about bashing Jar Jar Binks

Goldwyrm Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 7:48 p.m. PST

I'd answer No to the questions posed.

TMP is a great place to be right now. It is not an industry mouthpiece. It is a reflection of the miniatures hobby overall. Real time open exchanges of ideas and opinions. Only discourteous behavior is moderated. Businesses have to pass the smell test. What you see is what you get.

McKinstry Fezian17 Aug 2005 7:50 p.m. PST

No. Do you have specific instances or concerns where you feel the snake oil hobby salesman and hucksters have prevailed?

From what I've seen, half the commercial announcements are greeted with , 'nice, but I wanted it in 15mm' or ' good idea, grossly overpriced but good'and others of that ilk. I consider TMP a very snake oil unfriendly zone.

Personal logo mrwigglesworth Supporting Member of TMP17 Aug 2005 7:53 p.m. PST


Landorl17 Aug 2005 8:00 p.m. PST

No way!!! It is a great place to come and find out about the latest news and releases in the industry, plus it is a great community of gamers who share their knowledge with others. I don't think it could be too commercial unless it was owned by one of the companies.

Rattlehead Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 8:02 p.m. PST

I'd have to say no as well… I have the distinct feeling that if I were to engage in shady business practices, the TMP crowd would evicerate me in short order and thus pretty much end my commercial endeavors…

And I wouldn't have it any other way!


Hyun of WeeToySoldiers Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 8:09 p.m. PST

> No, Christmas is too commercial.

Don't forget Easter, Veterans Day, Memorial Day, Presidents' Day, MLK Jr. Day, or just about any holiday (here in the US) that has its root in something noble and worth remembering.

Not to go off on a tangent here, but what cracks me up and makes me groan at the same time are those after-Christmas/New Years' commercials where some attractive "typical" consumer starts out groaning about the holiday bills and whatnots, and the next second is all cheered up because now you can get great deals on new cars! You can save money on these fantastic deals! Just forget until you sign on the dotted line the fact that you're going $$$$$ more in debut by buying a new car…

Hey, I did go off on a tangent. Sorry folks!

> TMP is just about as it should be.


Do you guys remember a few years ago when some game publisher—forget his name, but his company did publish some unremarkable lines of games—took an exception to Bill posting news about how he stiffed Thane Morgan with the paid commission of printing the Armies of Arcana (IIRC) game? I hardly think a hobby industry mouth piece would've carried such a news.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian17 Aug 2005 8:20 p.m. PST

Hmmm… good poll question for tomorrow. (There's also the viewpoint that TMP is too anti-commercial! Some companies are reportedly "afraid" to post their news at TMP – or so I'm told…)

Hyun of WeeToySoldiers Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 8:25 p.m. PST

> Some companies are reportedly "afraid" to post their news at TMP

Hey, why should you be afraid of consumers voting with their wallets? If you have confidence in your products, and they are well presented (good painting & photography), why worry?

Given the preeminence of TMP as miniature hobbyists' gathering place, I can't think of a better place I'd want to showcase my wares at.

Grognard17 Aug 2005 8:41 p.m. PST

I don't think so (and I think the poll would be anti-climactic, but I will still vote). I do think that it has become to goth-chick focused however grin

- Joe

Cpt Arexu Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 9:02 p.m. PST


Personal logo Miniatureships Sponsoring Member of TMP17 Aug 2005 9:17 p.m. PST

Hey Bill, if you are going to do a poll, why do another related to the question that James ask; such as, how well do you trust the reviews posted about products? Many consider this the best place for information, but it appears that most of the things said on this form come from a rather small group of vocal individuals.

Good Bye Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 9:20 p.m. PST

I do a lot of my wargames shopping online. TMP lets me know about a lot of small companies with specialist and niche wargames products that I otherwise would never hear about, let alone spend money purchasing.

I also appreciate the warnings about various bad companies (it stopped me ordering from New Wave) and reading reviews of products that give honest opinions instead of just being fanboy mouthpieces.

Personally I think Bill does an excellent job with TMP, which is why I support it with my membership fee.

Pumpkin Head P Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 10:36 p.m. PST

Heck as a dealer is works for me!!!! Plus I get to rant along with the rest about products. Like my dear friend and Dawghouse companion John OFM said. What would a day be without bashing of



Keep it going as is Brother Bill.

May we part on the square

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP17 Aug 2005 10:39 p.m. PST

Well, as an advertiser, supporting member, and general annoyance because I hang out too much, I'd say no as well. I post product news quite a bit here. I have yet to get a negative reaction like "oh who cares" or whatever.

BTW the new Scale Creep "Dr. Murphy's Cure-All" is the greatest Miracle Dip known to man. Not only will it shade and highlight your miniatures, it cures lumbago, the willies, and male Rohrschach pattern baldness.

And if you act now I'll throw in a set of jen-yoo-wine imitation leather steak knife handle covers….

maxxon Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 10:42 p.m. PST

Well, I can understand those companies' viewpoint. I don't agree with it, but I can understand it.

It's just the traditional media approach: One-way communication. The media decides what to print/broadcast and the consumers are lucky if they get their views on the letter page (after editing).

For someone used to such total control, the openness of Internet can be scary.

Case in point: Wittness how the various "official" discussion sites are usually heavily censored – and NOT for behavior or language but content and "wrong" opinions. Volvo shut down their user group because the people discussed faults with their cars, not how great they were.

nazrat Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 11:07 p.m. PST

Another resounding NO to the question!!

mweaver Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 11:16 p.m. PST

Absolutley NO.

Personal logo Vis Bellica Supporting Member of TMP17 Aug 2005 11:33 p.m. PST

No: just right!

Personal logo Ironwolf Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member17 Aug 2005 11:52 p.m. PST

This is like going into a store and then complaining because they have displays of items that are for sale. Or picking up a newspaper and get upset because there are adds in it… :-) Yahoo groups are for chit chat. TMP is the "one stop" location for anything and everything for this hobby and then some.

Sumatran Rat Monkey Inactive Member18 Aug 2005 1:24 a.m. PST

In the words of the esteemed mweaver- "Absolutely NO."

TMP is a nice dictatorship that continually wobbles between structure and anarchy.

It fits in nicely with the rest of my life. Heh.

- Monk

BonzaiBob Inactive Member18 Aug 2005 3:08 a.m. PST

Hell No!

Personal logo Lentulus Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member18 Aug 2005 4:15 a.m. PST

The adds are an essential part of the site — I have learned about more sources of miniatures since I started using thsi site then I ever knew existed. That is a service in my books.

vojvoda Inactive Member18 Aug 2005 4:36 a.m. PST

John the OFM 17 Aug 2005 7:23 p.m. PST Wrote:
As for Snake Oil Hucksters, there isw a heck of a lot of Freedom of the Press here. Bill let's us say anythign at all about the people who pay his bills.
What is a week on TMP without:
1) Foundry Bashing
2) Games Workshop bashing
3) HMGS East bashing. Sorry, James. Had to throw that in!

What We are only #3! I have got to try harder…
James Mattes

The G Dog Fezian Inactive Member18 Aug 2005 5:35 a.m. PST

James is right – the highest volume thread in the past week has to be the "HMGS East 'might, sorta, possibly be thinking' of moving tournaments into the theater". 3 pages of messages.

We might as well argue that HMGS East is 'too commercial'.

There. That ought to bump you up in precedence.


Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP18 Aug 2005 6:38 a.m. PST

Some companies are afraid to advertise here? Seriously?
Has the regular bashing really affected anybodies sales? I doubt it. My guess is people automatically say, "Well, that's all the OFM ever does is whnie." Ditto the GW bashers. The SST bashing was getting to be a joke. Frankly, I think that bashing is good for a company. Any publicity is good publicity. ("What's he whining about again? Let me look it up. Wow! Those are neat! Lemme buy 4 packs!")
Arguing about a particular artistic style, like honking huge swords, has never deterred anyone who likes them. I bitch about what I see in a photo, and 9 other guys tell me I am full of it.

If a figure line cannot stand criticism, it has no business being on the market.

It may be good for their delicate little egos to not advertise here and avoid criticism, but not for their wallet.

jimbeau Inactive Member18 Aug 2005 7:53 a.m. PST

OFM, you ARE full of it :)

As a wise Sumatran Rat Monkey once said:

TMP is a nice dictatorship that continually wobbles between structure and anarchy

Russ MagWeb Lockwood Inactive Member18 Aug 2005 12:58 p.m. PST

No. I believe TMP is doing just fine.

I found TMP most valuable when went down temporarily—it allowed me an alternate way to get information out, to answer questions that I expect many folks had, and to reassure that we were working on the problem — and finally let everyone know when we got back up and running. It may not have been our most shining moment, but forums like TMP and Yahoo groups perform a great service — even for a company being "bashed."

Pre-MagWeb, I used to be the sysop of the Computer Gaming World forum on Compuserve back in the early 90s (when owned by Ziff-Davis). You can't beat two-way communication.


Sumatran Rat Monkey Inactive Member18 Aug 2005 2:55 p.m. PST

Jimbeau, I think you forgot a word- generally, when people call me wise, it's followed by "-ass." :)

- Monk

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP18 Aug 2005 5:19 p.m. PST


Personal logo Lentulus Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member18 Aug 2005 6:18 p.m. PST

Is TMP commercial enough? I want it to last, so it has to pay its keep.

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