""O GROUP!" Rules" Topic

For an update regarding the new "O Group!" WW2 rules from Reisswitz Press take a look over on the Too Fat Lardies blog:

toofatlardies.co.uk/blog/?p=7832

Here's a peak:

In "O Group" each player fields a battalion of troops under the command of the Battalion HQ. The battalion consists of a number of infantry companies, normally three, and will usually be supported by heavy weapons, guns and, of course, AFVs. This is a typical club-night sized game, although the rules easily and simply allow multiple players to field multiple battalions under a Brigade or battlegroup command if they wish. The command structure allows for each company having a company commander who attempts to maximise command and control for his company and battalion command who are attempting to influence the bigger picture. The standard tactical units in the game are the infantry platoon and gun or AFV platoon. That said, it is possible to operate heavy weapons, guns and tanks as single sections, so maybe a lone Tiger on the prowl.

‌

DB

Thanks Dave, checking out the update article now!

Great looking game and the AAR reads like an actual combat narrative. Do you have a publication date?

Big Red. He doesn't; he's in the hands of his evil publisher. However, I can tell you that it is out for external playtesting and then we will be going to layout and proof reading before it will head for the printer. We plan to publish later this year when we have worked our way through the process.

Rich

Thanks Rich (evil publisher?). Very much looking forward to the release.

Sounds really interesting but I am a bit confused (sorry if being dim!)

1. Are Battalion orders dice (rolled each turn) the "standard" orders mentioned?
2. In this case what are the mechanisms for determining the number of orders? e.g. d6 orders/pips per company commander with each company having its own pool or a number of e.g. d6 for the Battalion as a whole?
3. Does it then cost 1 order/pip per stand or per platoon etc?
4. Is the company commanders order in addition to this? one order per company commander per turn?
5. How do losses/morale impact the number of orders?

I do appreciate this is an initial taster article (and that maybe I should wait and "buy the rule book"!) but answers to these would very much improve my understanding how Command and Control works.

Many thanks
Nick

May i suggest a definition of what an O group is?

How are the infantry based? By squad?

Martin – "O Group" is explained in the article.

From the article:

""O Group", or Orders Group, is a British military term when officers and NCOs set out their plans and give orders."

"The standard tactical units in the game are the infantry platoon and gun or AFV platoon." It appears that they are using FOW or similar style basing for each platoon stand.

I mentioned it to help with this thread. That is where the explanation is needed.

I hope the rules come with a nice QRS, and maybe even something like a handy "O Group" order panel where all these order dispositions might be logged (or understood).

I dunno, sounds like there ought to be an image of a field radio, and with dispositions on this radio panel for logging away ones pts., pips, or whatnot.

At the moment I like the read, but having a hard time visualizing how to track all this (in ones head).

I foresee my Canadians in NW Europe finally coming back to life with this set.

I re-enact the North Nova Scotia Highlanders, so I'm thinking it'll be the Fighting North Novies for me.

Looking forward to this.

Cheers;
Eric

N,

1. Are Battalion orders dice (rolled each turn) the "standard" orders mentioned?

A = Battalion orders dice are rolled each turn and provide both your HQ and standard orders.

2. In this case what are the mechanisms for determining the number of orders? e.g. d6 orders/pips per company commander with each company having its own pool or a number of d6 for the Battalion as a whole?

A = The player/Battalion HQ pools the orders.

3. Does it then cost 1 order/pip per stand or per platoon etc?

A = An order is per platoon. However if you wish to give an order to say a single tank or gun then you can, but this becomes an expensive way to command your troops. (A few special orders will cost more to issue, such as 2 orders or even 3 orders.)

4. Is the company commander's order in addition to this? one order per company commander per turn?

A = No. The company commander can issue his own "special" tactical orders using orders from the players current pool of orders, but these are more expensive than standard orders.

5. How do losses impact the number of orders?

A = For every 4 sections lost (a platoon's worth of casualties) leads to the loss of 1 battalion order die. This then puts pressure on the player to commit his company commanders to topping up the battalion orders dice total, but they then lose the ability to use commanders at the tactical level. So, it's a command decision, risk less orders but keep your commanders free to operate at the tactical level, or drag your commanders into the command process and potentially lose them from the tactical battle for the turn.

DB

Thanks for the clarifications – sounds great. Looking forward to trying these.

FlyXw,

re: Tracking.

It's pretty straightforward. Currently we use normal order markers for standard (Company) orders, these can be anything from pennies to mdf tokens or even tiddlywinks! Each player needs about ten.

HQ Orders are just a dice next to your Battalion HQ base, as you are limited to a maximum of 6 HQ Orders at any one time.

url=https://postimages.org/]

‌

DB

For those, like me, who are excited about these new rules, I thought I'd post a link to some further briefing notes from Dave on the forthcoming rules.

Don't be confused by the title – this was the working title of the rules before the actual name O Group was decided on!

toofatlardies.co.uk/blog/?p=7760

I'm lucky enough to have been a play tester – and I can confirm that the rules are a lot of fun. Definitely recommended

Nice orders scenic Dave!

Nick and Teppsta – TY for your input too.

NP. I think anyone that likes Dave's other rules and currently plays CoC WW2 will find these very interesting.

These are your tactical command decisions. I've also tried to link the decisions the player would make in the game to similar decisions made by Battalion and Company Commanders on the WW2 battlefield as best one can in a wargame. I wanted players to concentrate a little less on individual weapons factors or gun penetration and more on the tactical situations of platoons and companies, i.e. whether to reinforce a flank, commit more reserves, when to release your armour and when to call in artillery. All these actions are linked to the command decisions you make through the command and control process.

From Lard Island News

Dave:

I do enjoy the CoC system, but that is at a very small time scale compared to O Group. As O Group treats orders sort of like money to be spent or banked, how does that mirror the actual order mechanisms/processes for a WWII battalion? You do explain it tangentially in the comments below, but that raises another question.[of course]

It's important to note at this point that the issuing of these "wargame orders" to your units does not represent just a select few units receiving orders while others have no orders. What this system assumes is that all units have received their initial battle orders but what the issuing of a platoon order to a unit represents is the amount of time it's taking your units to actually act on their original battle orders. So, if you are feeding orders to certain units this should be viewed as those particular officers and NCOs getting their men moving quickly and efficiently on the battlefield; while units that are not currently receiving orders should be seen as struggling to carry out their orders and doing so more slowly. Thus units temporarily without orders are taking far more time and taking much longer to carry out their orders.

If I am reading this right, those units the player has chosen to not receive orders are considered to be the ones struggling to carry out their orders? The players get to choose which troops are struggling and those who are more efficient at moving their troops? Is that right?

Having also had the opportunity of being a regular play tester for this set I would like to add how much fun all the phases of the game are. Even when you are not the phasing player you have ample opportunity to demonstrate the fate of a plan when it meets the enemy. If you are after a game of total predictable troop behaviour this game is NOT for you. If you want a game where you can take a break and watch your opponent go about ‘his turn' with wilful disregard for your troops and opportunities of counter attack this game is NOT for you. If you want a game that sets you in the seat of a commander with its opportunity, problems, resource management and friction this game IS for you. Troop quality and placement matters, but so does timing and bluff.
I cannot recommend this game enough to fans of the period and to fans of head to head gaming.

If you want a game that sets you in the seat of a commander with its opportunity, problems, resource management and friction this game IS for you.

YoungDave:

I find the premise/design objectives attractive. A wargame can--and many do--offer "opportunity, problems, resource management and friction" that have little to do with any real challenges of an actual combat commander.

I am interested in where Dave designed O Group's "opportunity, problems, resource management and friction" to mirror that of the actual WWII commanders.

Mainly in his upstairs "office" I think.

Mainly in his upstairs "office" I think.

Well, that's a given…

There appears to be some key information missing from the write ups. Nowhere does it state the ground scale.

So what is the ground scale?

Are we any nearer a release date guys?

beautiful table in those pics.

When you say the basic unit is a platoon, how is it represented? -- i.e. how many figures on how many bases.

What scale figures does it have in mind? 28mm? 20mm? 12/10?

I've been checking here every day for a release date, too!

Don,

A basic infantry platoon is made up of three sections.

Each section is a base of figures. It doesn't matter how many figures are on the base and base size is irrelevant, as long as they are reasonably consistent with your opponent's base sizes.

The game is aimed at 20mm, 15mm and 12/10/6mm.

DB

A basic infantry platoon is made up of three sections.

As for tanks and guns, how many are used for a platoon?

R,

One model AFV or Gun = 2 tanks or guns, or can be 3 tanks or guns if required.

DB

But when do we get to buy it?

thanks David.

You can now see part one of a three part play through of a 1944 Normandy O Group game over on YouTube. See the link below:

YouTube link

DB

Part 2 is now up over on the link.

YouTube link

DB

I got myself a copy! Nicely done.

I really like the flow of these rules and the focus on the Command and Fog of War aspect, something that suit the type and scale of the battles.

The only thing I find odd is the focus of 15mm and bigger models, must be because so many people have Flames of War stuff lying around. To me anything that is not skirmish is weird in WW2, even at 6mm tanks are much too big but decent for a this game scale. I even use 10mm for skirmish games these days and find that to work really well.

Anyway… the rules are great and work well at 6mm and lower scales if you like to play with that.

To be honest it sounds like Battlegroup where you roll for number of orders you can give (and add officer bonus).

It is similar. I like Battlegroup, but I find O Group to be more historical imo.

Are these similar to Kampfgruppe Commander? Those rules use the DBx PIP system.