Help support TMP

"Another Option for ODGW's Defending the Malay Barrier" Topic

8 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please avoid recent politics on the forums.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.

Back to the WWII Naval Product Reviews Message Board

Back to the WWII Naval Discussion Message Board

Areas of Interest

World War Two at Sea

Featured Link

Featured Ruleset

Featured Showcase Article

Small Scale Ships with M.Y. Miniatures

Mal Wright Fezian's first experience with 1:4800 scale naval models.

Featured Workbench Article

Back to Paper Modeling - with the Hoverfly

The Editor returns to paper modeling after a long absence.

966 hits since 28 May 2019
©1994-2022 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

codiver28 May 2019 11:32 a.m. PST

To maximize replayability, ODGW's Defending the Malay Barrier (The ABDA Campaign) includes three historical options to begin the campaign the historical result of the Force Z sortie; no Force Z sortie; or to play a turn that includes the Force Z sortie. The campaign also includes four options for the Dutch Order of Battle historical; the addition of HMS Tiger as HrMs Tiger based on the article "A Dutch What-if" by Jim O'Neil from the Royal Netherlands Navy supplement; the addition of two of the "Gneisenau-type" BCs from the Dutch "Project 1047"; and a combination of HrMs Tiger and one "Gneisenau-type" BC from the Dutch "Project 1047". The latter three include corresponding additions to the IJN Order of Battle.

In this case, the Dutch obtain the rights to the uncompleted German Mackensen class BCs:
Based on the disarmament and military restrictions from the Treaty of Versailles (and also just for spite), the French object to the whole deal, and especially the Germans building the planned 35cm (13.8") main guns, so surplus British 13.5" guns are purchased (probably with a kickback to the French). Coal-fired boilers are removed, they are converted entirely to more modern oil-fired boilers. Two casemate-mounted 5.9" guns are removed to save weight, leaving 12 (Dutch) 5.9" guns. The 8x 8.8cm L/45 FlaK guns are replaced by standard Dutch 4.7". Torpedo facilities are removed to save weight. Boat facilities moved slightly aft, a double-ended catapult is added between the stacks, though there is no room for a hangar. 2 floatplanes are carried.

The above narrative assumptions allow the Mackensen class BCs to be included in the campaign with a minimum of fuss e.g. they can simply use the GQ3 Royal Netherlands Navy Gunfire CRT. Use them in the same manner as HrMs Tiger or two of the "Gneisenau-type" BCs from the Dutch "Project 1047" i.e. with the same corresponding additions to the IJN Order of Battle.

The ship logs for the Mackensen class BCs can be found on the ODGW forum: link

d88mm194028 May 2019 2:20 p.m. PST

I have this book. What ships do you suggest using for these? In 1/2400 scale.


codiver28 May 2019 3:36 p.m. PST

If you want 1/2400 scale ships that are specifically supposed to be Mackensen class BCs, your only option appears to be 3D printed, e.g link

In the image, the gun barrels look way too thick to me, but it might just be the picture. I picked up a couple of Dutch 1047s I believe it is this one link and they look ok.

The other option is to use Derfflinger class miniatures, since they look quite similar (e.g. 4x2 main turrets all on the centerline). Then your options include:
GHQ: link
CinC (if/while they are still available): link
Panzerschiffe: link
The Viking Forge: link


d88mm194028 May 2019 10:05 p.m. PST

I appreciate that. I'll probably have to go with the GHQ option.


fantasque29 May 2019 3:09 a.m. PST

Thanks for posting this. I've commented on the ODGW forum but will repeat here.

An interesting idea and simple to implement. I will add a Mackensen or two to my 1/3000 Dutch fleet. I wonder how easy it would have been in practice to fit British designed guns into a German designed turret. I don't know enough about turret design and ammunition handling systems but I wonder if there be difficulties around how the guns are controlled, particularly loading.

ptdockyard29 May 2019 4:23 a.m. PST

Hmmm…..let's imagine this ship completed with stacks and a tower bridge similar to the De Ruyter……

AdmiralHawke31 May 2019 12:22 p.m. PST

Surely the War Times Journal Mackensen in 1/2400 is a good option?

There's also an Ersatz Yorck:

codiver01 Jun 2019 1:07 p.m. PST

Nice catch AdmiralHawk, I missed that with my "Google-fu".

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.