"CCL in your locale..." Topic

Restricted to ex-military, ex-law enforcement?

In NY & NJ (USA), CCL – even a carry permit is not cheap or easy to obtain.

How is it for the rest of you?

Interested in other countries as well.

(NO flame wars please!)

Charlie

Possessing a handgun in the UK is a criminal offence bar the military and security services.

Even our street cops are unarmed although there are firearms available to specific officers.

Thanks for the information JimDuncanUK.

Pennsylvania is much friendlier, a trip to county sheriff or township chief a permit filled out, then background check before issuing or deny the permit. Does require a fee but doubt it's large. I work with a couple of guys who have them.

$200 USD, a training class and background check. I think that's all you need around here.
But then you have to deal with a convoluted set of restrictions: you can carry it, but not in one of these listed places or if you are participating in these listed activities. Very few of which are reasonable.

why is there a need to conceal it.

So the bad guys don't know you have it until it's too late. Surprise sucks if you are on the receiving side of it.

Colorado – $52.40 USD to state, $100. USD sheriff fee, 4 hour class, and background check.

Wisconsin is pretty easy and inexpensive. I didn't have to take a class as I already had taken one when I was in college in Ohio, had completed USAF basic training, and also taken the Hunter's Safety course when I was 11, all of which satisfied our requirements.

In November, Oklahoma becomes a constitutional carry state: no permit or training required.
Until then basic training class, background check, and $100 USD for 5 year permit is required.

Regardless of the hoops you do or do not have to jump through locally to obtain a concealed carry license, the next thing you better do is call your friendly insurance agent and get a $5 USDM liability policy.

If you shoot somebody, regardless of whether you kill or merely wound them, and even if you are within your rights and the DA no bills you, the civil suit you undoubtedly will face will ruin your life.

A fact the proponents of carrying acknowledge but don't really want to talk about.

It sucks when your title changes from armed citizen to defendant.

As important as your local (state & city/county) laws, if you travel, you must be aware of the laws of the jurisdictions through/to which you travel; i.e reciprocity
This reciprocity map link is by state and does not include smaller jurisdictions; e.g. New York City or Chicago which have stricter restrictions.

An unloaded firearm locked in the trunk (i.e. an inaccessible location) can get across a state or be considered a Concealed Weapon. Know your laws!

Go to a full weekend (3 (4?) day) gun show. They have CC classes. There are local CC permit classes and there is the Utah CC permit which has greater reciprocity. link

Florida, a local gun shop was offering free classes, $10 USD for photo, and $10 USD range fee, both optional. Needed another $10 USD for fingerprints and $60 USD for the license. No problem. I travel back and forth to Jacksonville weekly and get to some rather seedy neighborhoods, carry mine in my breifcase

In Arizona CCW permits are available without unreasonable requirements-- recommended, although as far as I know concealed carry has recently been legalized without a permit. Open carry is legal just about everywhere.

It would be interesting to know what international travelers think of this situation since Arizona is a popular tourist destination.

If you have a good reason for carrying a weapon why is there a need to conceal it.

I was a PI … sometimes I carried it in case I needed it. For self defense. As sometimes I was not always "on the best side of town".

And of course being a PI … you really didn't want draw any attention to yourself. Which could happen if you were carrying a weapon in the open.

The local LEOs that knew me. Said, I wouldn't have to take the course for a CCL. After 10+ years in the Infantry, I knew how to handle/use Small Arms, etc. They said I'd just have to pay the cost of the class. Then they'd just sign off on the form, etc.

Just for information to Europeans and Britain's, there are places, many in fact open carry is permitted by anyone ( maybe not convicted criminals) no permit needed.

Also a well advised read
link

As John said, in November, Oklahoma becomes a constitutional carry state: no permit or training required. The next question becomes, will the legislature then move to lift some of the restrictions where one may carry -- for example, college campuses. If this particular restriction is removed, it should make our faculty association meetings much more interesting. That said, while I am not offended by any of the conversations on this new forum, perhaps (judging from the number of people who have been banished to the Dawg House) these conversations are better suited for the Blue Fez. As an active member of the Blue Fez, I can assure you that these types of conversations are welcomed at that forum.

Ohio, $100 USD class, 8 hours of PowerPoint slides, 2 hours of range time. Another $40 USD to the local sheriffs office and I got my permit. Good for 5 years.

As others have touched on open carry, I will add that Virginia does not fear her citizens to be armed, but rather she recognizes that the armed citizen is the ultimate defender of society. For which reason Virginians can openly bear arms six days of the week. Why only six days you may ask? Because no man should have need of arms on the Sabbath.

"A change to the Wyoming Concealed Firearm Permit State Statute in 2011 removed the requirement for Wyoming residents that wanted to carry a concealed firearm in our state from having a valid permit in order to carry a concealed firearm. "

"If you shoot somebody, regardless of whether you kill or merely wound them, and even if you are within your rights and the DA no bills you, the civil suit you undoubtedly will face will ruin your life."

Out of curiosity, can you provide any citations, articles, books that cover where this actually happened? I haven't heard of it happening here in Virginia, though civil suits rarely make the news.

Agreed, I haven't heard of it happening when the shoot is justified.

Further, I dispute that it's "a fact the proponents of carrying acknowledge but don't really want to talk about."

My wife just took her class and civil liability was a two-hour block and there was a company selling insurance right then and there.

Michigan: requires a course, background check by county Sherrif & fee, 5 year for CPL (conceled pistol lisc), renewable with fee & proof of range time. There are restrictions on where you can carry. When I took my couse the officer did talk about liability also.

Of course it you carry you need to be aware of YOUR civil rights. Most cc trainers or gun shops can refer you to a good personal defense attorney. Also. the NRA offers a personal protection policy(at a very resonable price) as well as referrals to local attorneys who specialze in protecting and defending legal gun owners.

If you are involved in a situation where you are required to use deadly force to protect yourself or someone else these are the recommended instructions to tell the police:
1. I was attacked by that person
2. There is the evidence
3. There are the witnesses
4. I'm going to wait until my attorney arrives to give a statement and sign a complaint.

Yeah, get you that 5 Mil insurance. Then the poor grieving relatives who had no idea their son was a thug have something to sue for. Think a lawyer is going to go after the $10,000 USD you have in the bank? HA! Cities and Police Dept's get sued because most have a policy of "If its under $______ we just pay off, it's cheaper". If any of them started counter suing and winning, all that would change.

Do your own homework – Google civil liability cases concealed carry.
$5 USDM insurance – apparently some of us have more assets to protect than others.

According to my slimy but very wealthy PI Attorney buddy Tony who made the bulk of his money sueing municipalities it comes down to two questions.

1. Did you have the right to shoot? This is the one the DA and the LE types are concerned with. A yes answer will usually avoid the shooter being charged, but

2. Did you have to shoot? This is where it gets murky but a no answer usually gets you sued if the shot person or their representative is so inclined. Plus given the shooting skills of most people carrying from what I've seen, innocent bystanders are just as likely to get hit as any deserving thug.

This is where IMHO the legislature of the constitutional carry states are only enriching the PI lawyers at the expense of the carrying public. Like some other folks above said if you are going to carry learn the law and protect yourself from civil liability.

And yeah I'm one of the gun owners who are responsible for there being more guns than people in the US. I shoot regularly and the vast majority of shooters at the range I shoot at can't hit the broad side of a barn, and that is at 5-7 yards. Before you tell me how great a shooter you are, run around the parking lot 5 times, do 30 push-ups and then brag about your accuracy. I know mine suffers.

OH yeah not practicing law here, just trying to help folks understand what is at stake.

Relatively cheap and easy to obtain in Ohio.

link

The lawsuit argument is a bit silly as you are generally only allowed to use your firearm if presented with deadly force. So in other words someone is trying to kill you. Now if I have a choice between getting killed or getting sued I'll go with getting sued. However I would still recommend having an insurance policy. Some jurisdictions require it for a concealed weapons permit.

Plus I have been involved in criminal investigations for 30 years and I have never seen a single lawsuit against a civilian for shooting someone after the shoot was declared self defense by the DA.

NO offense, but I don't have to do my own homework, I've been through it.

Were there no concerns about civil liability, it wouldn't be part of the curriculum for those states that require classroom training, nor would all the reputable training schools and the NRA offer liability insurance and lawyers.

Bottom line if you want to be all John Wayne, you better be ready to be all Perry Mason too.

Carry on…

I agree that if you carry a firearm it's a good idea to carry insurance. It's unlikely you will get sued if the shoot is justified but it's certainly possible.

But since you shouldn't shoot unless presented with deadly force and it's between me getting killed or getting sued, I know which option I'm going for

And since this is supposed to be about obtaining concealed weapons permits , in California it is up to the individual county law enforcement agencies. So generally in the conservative counties it's relatively easy to obtain one while in the liberal counties it's pretty much impossible.

There are several sources for insurance.

I gave my email address to CCA (wanted to see a video they had) and they are constantly bombarding me with contest offers as an incentive to join interspersed with warnings about needing lawyers and insurance in case a shooting occurs or there is a run in with over-zealous law enforcement.

In Indiana provided not a felon etc you can get a CCL with fingerprinting and background check. You can choose a few years or lifetime.

This year the legislature just allowed church's with a school separate but still part of the campus to carry in church. (Many church's I know have security teams – Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum) They also passed a law forbidding lawsuits in the case of justified self defense or the defense of others. (A legally armed CCL holder was attacked, when a police came to her rescue he was attacked and had lost his gun- the CCL holder shot and killed the attacker. She was sued. So it does happen)