"Painful Reminders That Thomas Jefferson Was ..." Topic

…Kind Of An Awful Person

"If being American were a sport, Thomas Jefferson would be in the running for all-time MVP. Jefferson was one of the best Founding Fathers, the primary author of the Declaration, a celebrated President, and the most popular character in Hamilton. America was founded on Jefferson-stated principals, especially those regarding "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," along with all men being "created equal."

Unfortunately, Jefferson himself really failed to live up to those lofty values. The great things that Jefferson did are eclipsed by the awful things he did. Jefferson's hypocrisy is fairly well-known amongst Americans, but his status as a member of the Mount Rushmore Club has resulted in some of his outright terribleness being edited out of history…."
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Amicalement
Armand

Mount Rushmore did not erase Jefferson's failings. Nor did those who knew about them forget.

Getting old when 2019 constantly insists on a standard of moral and economic and spiritual perfection from those from bygone eras.

The constant desire to judge historical figures by today's standards has become tiresome. It has become fashionable to destroy all heroes and to cancel all the good they have done based on today's PC sensibilities. We do not need to overlook past bad behavior, but why isn't we only emphasize the bad in order to deconstruct and vilify these people.

"The great things that Jefferson did are eclipsed by the awful things he did".

The author has that exactly backwards.

Almost 232 years of history would seem to be on my side.

I submit that virtually ALL of our founding father's critics will never even come close to serving America and Americans like those great men did more than 200 years ago. It isn't even close.

Even the writer of the article states that Jefferson was against slavery, and wanted to abolish it.

Many today choose to tear down our forefathers and our country, rather than to try to help create a better one for Americans.

My grandmother was 14 when she married, and both she and my grandfather who married her were wonderful, caring people. Even in the early to almost mid-1900s, it was not uncommon for people to get married at such young ages, since people died far earlier too, than they do today (some in their 40s and 50s).

i have a feeling that the people compiling these lists share a worldview with those who have been cleansing college and universities of ideas and people they find 'awful or horrifying.'

They are Nechayev-ites; Everything must be destroyed before society is rebuilt for the better. (They'll worry about the second part after achieving the first.)
And yes, they are tiresome…

What did Oscar Wilde say?:

"…there is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."

Think of it this way, most of the other Founding Fathers arent even discussed or criticized. I suppose it is a measure of one's greatness to even be worthy of being torn down.

"Du passé faisont table rase…" (from L'internationale song) collectivists working on, more or less under a smoke screen.
I see it regularly its obvious destructive effects in Russia. Fortunately, they did not succeed in going deep into the heart of the place. It destroyed a lot but otherwise skimmed over the strength of History and Truth.
To make you be sorry for everything past and who you are. It seems to work quite well.
This only related to wargaming when they want to take off statues at 300% scale of Lee or Peter the great.;) in metal of course.

I find it kind of strange that on a board in which folks are happy to debate the minute flaws of every possible piece of random military hardware, they seem to find that subjecting people to the same scrutiny is objectionable on principle.

It is true, however, that in most University level history courses in the U.S., we prefer to give students the most accurate interpretation possible of significant historical actors, often at the expense of their mythic post-mortem reputations. This does not mean, however, that we are trying to destroy reputations, just to do good, solid history. If Jefferson was indeed a great man, as I tend to believe, then his reputation should be able to withstand the light of day. And his slave owning and behavior toward his slaves does indeed open him up to the charge of hypocrisy and worse, even by the standards of his day.

The click-bait article referenced above, though, is just as bad as the glowingly reverential accounts of Jefferson that used to be taught in schools. Jefferson was a complex guy and to look at just one side of his character is completely misleading.

It's the rather deliberate, relentless attempts of the PC crowd to diminish those who went before that gets on our nerves.

I personally find many of today's current politicians much more objectionable than Jefferson…and not by a small amount.

Joe Collins

Indeed, the peccadilloes of some of the recent and current figures in politics around the world may match or surpass those of Jefferson and their accomplishments pale in comparison.

By the way, while Jefferson may have instigated 'dirty tactics' in American politics, they are as old as Democracy.

Well said Joe Collins!

Larry

Jefferson was not a good wartime governor of Virginia and when that state was invaded by the British, he ran and then resigned as governor, leaving the state leaderless.

He was also not a very good president with his foreign policy a mess and his forced reductions of the armed forces, especially the US Navy.

His successor and protégé, James Madison, got the US involved in a largely useless war with Great Britain, which the US did not have the means to wage.

Both Jefferson and Madison are Founding Fathers, and their work on the Declaration of Independence and US Constitution, respectively are political and governmental milestones and are among the greatest of historical documents, they didn't qualify the authors as able to be president.

And it should be noted that Jefferson had nothing to do with the writing and adoption of the Constitution as he was then ambassador to France. In point of fact, he was an anti-federalist.