"‘Game of Thrones’: Most Shocking Moments From the " Topic

………Battle of Winterfell

SPOILER ALERT!!

Incredible good!… I have several heart attack….

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Principals characters are safe… for the moment….

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Amicalement
Armand

Did you notice that Night B King looked like he had gotten a nice tan after he got the Dracarys treatment?
He looked good.

Too dark. Too much shakey cam. Deus ex-Arya.

I'm sure there was an amazing fight in there if only I could have seen it.

Not sure why the Dothraki charged darkness. What was the point?

Why did Dany land in the middle of a swarm of zombies?

Why is Jon always so useless?

What was Bran doing that whole time he was ‘gone?' Why does the Night King want him?

Loved bits, hated other bits. I found it the least satisfying battle in the show yet. Much preferred the Battle of Castle Black, also fought at night, but one where you could soak in the details.

Agree about dark and shakey cam… it's the atmosphere they choose… a chaos night….

The charge of the Dothraki was very fool… better to keep them in reserve… at least they test the enemy… no more Drothraki now…

Dany land after he tried to protect John with a fire circle… the zombies climb to her dragon and he has to scape…

Jon is the good guy… he tried to do the correct thing… in the real life… it happens… I like that Arya save the day… not John…

Brand actitude was a mistery… I don't get it well… seems the crows point the hidden position of the Night King… to john and Dany….(?)

I like it very much… It kept me in permanent tension … especially when the main characters were in danger…

Special mention to Lyanna Mormont…

Seems they talked about the next battle against Cercei (advances of the next chapter).

My question is… with whom?… Dany has not more Armies… only one dragon survive(?)… how many men can be in arms ?….

Amicalement
Armand

I'd agree that it was to dark visually, they studied Helm's Deep apparently but missed the fact that you can still see the action in that night battle. I'm also surprised so many main characters survived.

I think Arya's moment was a little to deus ex, but the problem with the army of the dead has always been that it should be unstoppable since there was very little available to counter it.

Also can I just say why fight a battle outside the walls anyway, kind of pointless really since they just threw away an army and then struggled to hold the walls.

Really I think that could have been the ending for the series, a few shell shocked survivors standing amongst the corpses winning a 'victory' but with little hope for the future.

The Golden Company may be the key to the rest of the series since their loyalty to Cersei is limited, they were formed from the supporters of an exiled branch of the Targaryen family (the Blackfyres) and they apparently have lots of ex-westeros exiles in their ranks (so probably a fair number of exiled Targaryen supporters).

As the episode ended Cersei wins, the army of the dead is gone, Dani's army is decimated (if not totally exterminated) and she has the only standing army left…….however Euron may betray her and make a play for the throne himself, not least because Cersei isn't going to share the throne or just become the wife of the king again. Also the Golden Company is some what surplus to requirements since Cersei no longer needs this expensive army of mercenaries.

Something is obviously going to happen with the Golden Company since they didn't need to be brought over unless they are going to be playing a part in the final battles for the Iron Throne.

Ok

No deep battle…..
Air power did not interdict
CAS was ineffective due to weather and lack of air superiority.

Artillery was failed to provide
Deep supporting fire:destroying enemy reserves
Close supporting fire: against nearby enemy forces

The operational reserve was used in the opening engagement rather than positioned to conduct a counterstroke

'Once the defender has gained an important advantage, he must strike back, or he will court destruction" Carl von Clausewitz, On War'

John Snow needs to work on his cardio….. Train hard fights easy!

Arya understood the enemies centre of gravity and struck it!!

People fight outside the walls of a mighty fortress because the public expects them to fight all homogeneously distributed all over the battlefield, hacking at each other to provide a dynamic background for the protagonists to bump into each other and settle scores.

Mallasandra to Arya: i see darkness in u and in that darkness eyes still looking at me , brown eyes ,green eyes and blue eyes.. eyes u will shoot forever we will meet again. Brown eyes: lord fray ✓ Blue eyes: night king ✓ Green eyes: cersei …?

The Golden Company being Blackfyre loyalists is irrelevant, since the show will hardly bring up Blackfyre with 71 episodes down with never mentioning them and just 3 to go.
After last night, the bang is over. The only people tuning in now will be those who have invested time into the show and want to see how it plays out.

Couldn't see a dang thing! What were they thinking??

Dothraki thought their charge was irresistible and now they had the flaming swords. Surprise.

Winterfell couldn't hold them all, especially not with the Dothraki horses which they would never give up.

I don't know who ordered the charge, certainly not Jon or Dany who were a long ways off watching.

Tactically the only thing that really bugged me was after the trench was lit and the dead momentarily stopped, the defenders did nothing. No arrows, no flaming oil, nothing. No leadership at a critical time.

The Musical score was marvelous though…from a borderline annoying buzzing and scraping that slowly but surely transforms itself into one of the most beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard.

Problems above, so noted and understood. Again, as in like Downton Abbey…many "get it", most "don't, so they played to the lowest common denominator . . .

I'll miss Iain Glen though.

I like Samwell Tarley's quiet bravery borne out of absolute terror!

I loved the final interchange between the last of the Night's Watch too.

I love the way her Little Ladyship fought to the bitter end, one would expect no less from that Firebrand!

obstacles must be covered with fire!!!

Not only didn't the defenders do anything, they weren't even manning the walls. What is the point of even having walls if you aren't going to put people on them. When they started yelling "man the walls" I was done with that episode.

Probably one of the worst battle sequences I've seen in a series or film that overall is quite good.

The tactics were terrible all along, the number of main characters that survived was disappointing and the last minute save by Arya was pretty bad writing. I predicted Arya would kill the Night King and there were a lot of ways for her to do that without the way it happened. A lot of better ways for that to happen.

Overall, between the darkness and confusion, the piss-poor battleplan and execution and all the last minute hollywoodisms in it, this was probably my least favourite episode of GoT yet.

It certainly underscored the point that Jon Snow has no business commanding anything larger than a platoon. He is tactically inept.

Really, the whole point about the battle was Bran luring the Night King into the Godswood so Arya could stab the Night King with the dagger that didn't kill him in Season 1.
He "foresaw" the whole thing. What was the point with him tuning out to warg into a murder of ravens? Killing time?

At least Sansa's Logistics problems of feeding thousands of Dothraki and Unsullied has been solved. Dragons can munch on the leftovers.

The killing of the Night King should alleviate Winter and bring about Global Warming.

I totally thought the most shocking moment was when the Műmakil showed up carrying Hellboy and all those Jedi Knights. I did *not* see that one coming.

There was a fan theory about that posted to facebook spoiler page my GF belongs to so sadly I knew about the Hellboy.

I just expected the Jedi to last longer against the undead Sardaukar.

I too had to comment on the dothraki cavalry charge, I assume Ghost died? We never saw in after the charge?
Waste of good horses and doggie.

And why did only Daenerys napalm the ice zombies? John literally sat on a wall with his dragon for 20 minutes.

If he and Daenerys had napalmed the ice zombies closest to the fire moat. They would never have been able to make ice zombie bridges over the fire.

Tactical ineptitude everywhere you look.
Not a very good episode, but GoT has never been good at action. The battles are generally bad and the various fights/duels haven't been very good either.

The Golden Company being Blackfyre loyalists is irrelevant, since the show will hardly bring up Blackfyre with 71 episodes down with never mentioning them and just 3 to go.

Its likely to come up more in the books, but Martin has already said that the books will have the same ending as the TV series. But you missed my point, the Golden company was founded by Westeros exiles and since then has had influxes of Westeros exiles from Robert's rebellion (and other conflicts) including fairly large numbers of Targaryen loyalists who lost their lands in the aftermath.

Seems to me that the Golden Company was brought in at the end of the story for a reason and it could explain where Dani's next army comes from. Or Arya could just go on a murder spree.

I loved it – tactical deficiencies and all. The destruction of the Dothraki was great – watching the swords extinguishing and blinking out was visually superb.

The weight of hopelessness was palpable when all the combatants rose up once again. Complaints about it all being visually dark too I can dismiss – you don't always get the clarity you need in battle – that was handled as it should have been. What Night King commands in the light?

I knew there was going to be an intervention of some kind at the end, but thought maybe Bran was going to transform into something more formidable.

I did think, now what – three more episodes of talking? How are they going to wrap all this up? Lannisters cleaning up what's left?

On viewership – I didn't see the numbers for S8E3 but the premiers for the season was a record breaker at 17 million something; college championship games in basketball and football routinely beat that. And Super Bowls are often 4-5 times more. That said, GoT begins at 9pm on a Sunday night – even we watched it this morning.

10/10

Imho the strategy was not so bad …

If we talk about numbers … Dany contributed with 25,000 warriors … John counting the savages, etc. 16,000 and the 2 Dragons of course.

According to the numbers released earlier … the Night King had under his command more than 100,000 zombies … along with what he collected on the way to Winterfeld … let's say that about 120,000 zombies … plus 1 Dragon.

Although the Cavalry was sacrificed uselessly (no one had experience in a charge of such magnitude on a mass of zombies) … if you look carefully …when the Night King advances on foot towards Wintefeld and John tries to stop him … THERE ARE NO ZOMBIES around him nor trying to attack the fortress … he must turn the dead defenders into zombies to stop John and eventually Dany … only a few tens of them are seen inside the castle fighting against our heroes … entering the crypt or transiting the halls of the castle … my calculation after seeing the chapter again is no more than a couple of hundred .. THEREFORE, the Zombie army was literally destroyed … of course, the Night King can (and could) resuscitate the dead that did not fall under the Valkyrie Steel or the Dragon Glass …

Also…There was a moment of tension between Dany and John when she decides to help the defenders on the plain and he takes her arm hard and tells her that they must stay protecting Bran … waiting for the Night King … of course then when he saw Dany in danger … John flies in his aid … maybe that was the strategy of the Night King (?)

Nobody can denied the good tension of this combat and the surprices there….

Hope John is reading this….

Amicalement
Armand

Well stated Flashman!

watching the swords extinguishing and blinking out was visually superb.

Seconded.

My favorite scene is Theon's last hurrah; Bran's words to him are poignant, especially considering how dismissive the Three-Eyed Raven has been of the feelings of all the little pawns in the Great Game.

Looking at the trailer for the next episode, apparently some troops survived the battle, Dani's still got two dragons and is confident of defeating Cersei.

The Golden Company is nothing but a cool name from the books. It's composition for the tv show is irrelevant.

We have seen no Aryanna Martel, no Penny, no Nimble Dick, no fake Aegon, no Victarian Greyjoy, no….
So, no Blackfyre.
The Three eyed raven is no longer Brynden Rivers. Coldhands IS Benjen Stark.
Blessedly, there is no Harry the Heir, breaking Sansa's heart at the Prom.

We have long passed using the books as a guide to the tv show. Trying to do so is clutching at straws.

At any rate…
The personal relationships of the characters were superbly well played.
The battle tactics were, as traditional in fantasy movies, idiotic.
I'll take that.

Consider the movie Beastmaster. The Hero is in a castle besieged by …. Huns, let's call them. All they're doing is riding around the fort shooting arrows at the defenders who are dying like flies.
So, the Hero, his hot girlfriend, his cranky old wizard, and the legitimate heir to the city leap over the wall and attack the Huns on foot.
At least Tanya Roberts was topless earlier.
For all its faults, Ep 3 could have been worse. Much worse.

I watched it again this evening, it is much better the second time around, other than the cavalry charge and in the light of events, even that is understood…to an extent.

Events meld and mesh better in second viewing, I'll take it for what it is.

I saw it for the third time… agree that is much better when you see it again…

Seem the Dothraki chage for their own… Sir Jonas tried to stop his horse… but then decided to follow them…

Maybe the light Melissandre give them up their moral and push them to charge… (all what they new).

This time I can saw some Dothraki and "Castrati"still fighting when the Night King went down… not only our heroes…

Good combat by Podric…!

Also… I missed the Dragon combat the first two times… now I saw how they damaged themselves… The Zombie Dragon lost even part of his face… John Dragon was used as a bite and DAny as the hammer… that's how they dismount the Night King…. So… the "aerial" combat was a victory… who can imagine that "Dracaris" never work!… (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

17 million viewers is not exceptional. I recently heard that the last episode of MASH had 105 million viewers. Of course there was less competition back then.

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It's all about cinema and cool visuals and not tactics. Not many watch GOT for tactics. The scene of the lighting of the Dothraki blades and the charge was splendid, but then seeing the fires go out and hearing the sounds of combat go silent was brilliant.

I think the disappoint for some of us stems from the 'longest battle scene' hype that was put out pre screening of the episode and instead we got a badly lit night battle where it's impossible to see much and then a long zombie survival horror section where the heroes mostly survive against hordes of zombies who suddenly struggle to kill anyone (once all the red shirts are dead). I'm probably being to harsh, because I did enjoy the episode but it's seemed underwhelming for the climax of the whole white walker part of the story.

I was expecting a climactic battle like helm's deep and instead I got an episode of a zombie series.

The murkiness to me was much more evocative of real combat where most of the time you gave no idea of what's going on even three feet away from you. Command control sucks even in daylight with radios.

It's like the criticism of Das Boot being too long and and claustrophobic. That's realism. Hiding from destroyers in a submerged submarine is long and claustrophobic.

Murkiness?

Most of the battle was pitch black, not particularly realistic in any way since if you going to be forced to fight a night battle your going to create artificial lighting so your troops can at least function, or defend the walls, or even draw up your army behind the field fortifications rather in front of the staked pit.

If it is all about cinema and cool visuals then they mostly failed because about half the time I couldn't see anything hardly.

Not seeing things makes it scarier than literal depictions. The mind's eye is better than cgi.

Our original viewing was on a Sony Bravia 52" flat screen and you could see "blotches/pixilation" and it was very dark. We watched it a second time on the Sony Bravia 4K HD TV 64" and could see things a lot clearer.

The episode certainly improves with subsequent viewings. But darkness and pixilation problems aside, the issue with me is "I don't get it". Perhaps this confusion is what exacerbates the weird battle tactics and Deuz Ex Machina ending. "I really don't get it". After 8 seasons and all the talk of the Winter Coming and NK and cool stuff right from the first episode. And the long slow build and march over 8 seasons to get to the wall and then Winterfell. I am left with "That's it"? He walks in, looks at Bran and dies. Maybe I am forgetting some key plot things from season 5 or a twist from season 6. But he marches down, stares at his foe with no words spoken, nothing. And then dies. The end. Completely frustrating.

Through all the other battles, allegiances, betrayals, it was explained and built up. It made sense. There were great "Gasp!" moments. Heroic deeds that at least felt real. Arya killing the NK was "Well, that was interesting. Hmmph" Sometimes it took a season to finally get to a conclusion, but it was worth it. This took 8 seasons for what? I feel a bit cheated.

Golden Company was brought in at the end of the story for a reason and it could explain where Dani's next army comes from

So true since she has complete control over them.

Most of the battle was pitch black, not particularly realistic in any way since if you going to be forced to fight a night battle your going to create artificial lighting so your troops can at least function

Not really, since there are reasons why most famous large battles were fought during the daytime.

You would be amaze by now dark it can get once the Sun goes down.

Not really, since there are reasons why most famous large battles were fought during the daytime.

Huh, I'm really not sure what you saying here since your response doesn't make a lot of sense. Pre-night vision most battles are of course going to be fought in daylight and night battles are usually depicted as having artifical light sources (fires, torches, spotlights etc) or at least moonlight.

So my point was that being forced into a night battle (against an enemy that can see in the dark) the rational thing would have been to light some bonfires.

You would be amaze by now dark it can get once the Sun goes down.

I'm not sure I'd be amazed by it getting dark when the sun goes down. Its been happening every night for as long as I can remember.

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I'm not sure I'd be amazed by it getting dark when the sun goes down. Its been happening every night for as long as I can remember.

True, but today there is so much light pollution that you have to go somewhere there is little light pollution.

As to putting up Fires and holding a torch means that:

A fire works ways but for Undead they do not need light to see by.

Also if you are holding a torch that means you are not holding a shield.

As to why they fought outside of Winterfell is that like most castles it is not big enough to hold as many fighters as they had.

Oh and Ghost is probably still alive.

Oh and not every Dothraki was killed in that charge.

You can see some of them running back to the lines.

But I would have built earthen walls that would had a large ditch dug in front of it.

Would have only slowed down the Undead.

And why did only Daenerys napalm the ice zombies? John literally sat on a wall with his dragon for 20 minutes.

Wrong on both accounts, once the Dothraki were done Dani took the skies and started flaming the Undead that were attacking. Jon was right up there with her and they were putting a major hurt onto the Undead taking out hundreds at a time.

Then the Night King showed up and that ended very quickly.

As to certain individuals surviving you got to remember that they were some of the best fighters and they were always meant to live anyway.

Jamie will end up marring Brienne

Tyrion and Sansa might end up married as well (at moment in the Crypt).

Arya and Gendry

Cersei well she will end up quite dead.

Jon will end up being King with Dani as his queen.