"How Big Should a 15mm Napoleonic Army Be?" Topic

In your opinion, what should the minimum size of an Napoleonic army be, in terms of numbers of 15mm figures/models?

Depends on the rules. I play Napoleons Battles where an army can be represented by 100 to 1000 figures depending on the battle. ( figure ratio is 1 figure is 120 men) Other rules might have a figure ratio of f 1:20 or 1:50, so would need a lot more figures.

If DBN then 50-100.
If GdB then 300-400.

I have a number of armies in 15mm, I have enough to do the major battles of the warsusing Napoleon's battles, although for Borodino I have to use some 1806 Russian cavalry,

Tally Ho!

How long is a piece of string?

An army needs at least two corps, a corps needs two divisions, a divison needs two brigades, a brigade needs three batallions, how many figures you need for a btl is written in your rule book

A piece of string is twice as long as half of it.

The question is, what is the MINIMUM number of figures
in 15mm for a Napoleonic army.

ONE. Play Risk and use Naps.

Of course, the thread title is 'How Big etc. etc.' but
when speaking of minimums, perhaps it should be HOW SMALL
or what's the smallest with which you could get by…

As Ed, Dogtail, Steaming Dave, and Milkshake have said, it is not a matter of scale, but a matter of rules. For a set of skirmish rules in which the player keeps track of wounds, ammunition and perhaps how the musket loading is coming along, a satisfactory game--and hence army--might be only a dozen figures or so a side. For a VB&G game where two dozen figures might occupy a single 3"x3" stand, the number required would be vastly larger.

None of which matters, because the ensuing poll will ignore all of this and demand a numerical answer. Again.

It depends, as noted above, on many things but especially rules use. Napoleon's Battles is best played one corps against an opposition corps. A corps should be about 160-300 figures.

1st Western Army of Borodino 5 Inf Corp, 3 cav Corp, Cossacks, reserve art.

Minimum? Two corp

Or play Snappy Nappy and have a an Empire corps convert to nearly the whole 1815 Prussian army, and then some!

T Corret, that is good! I have not played Snappy Nappy yet, but that is a great point of it.

For Empire (a 1:60 game designed for corps and army games), you can have a perfectly good time with a division-sized force of 100 figures a side.

I use both Napoleon's Battles and Blucher rules. I use 16 figures for my standard infantry brigade. A two division infantry corps can be as few as 64 figures, with a few guns attached. For cavalry I use a standard 12 figure unit. A typical corps would have 2 cavalry units and maybe a horse artillery base attached. I base my figures for Napoleon's Battles but the basing fits nicely with the blucher rules. When I use the blucher rules my infantry 3"x1" fit nicely on the blucher card base. My cavalry also fit but are a bit tight at 3"x2". I can nicely mount 2 artillery bases onto a blucher card. I am working on a small Borodino scenario and the French Guard Corps has 4 brigades of infantry and 3 cavalry units with a guard foot and horse artillery. The French 5th Corps is comprised on only 44 figures; 2 brigades of infantry (16 figs each) and 1 unit of lancers (12 figures).

At least 4 Corps per nation! At least that is what I did

More than 10,000 in 15mm

I'm with Saber6 – but with Adlers.

Only 60% way through painting it.

15mm

I use GdB Deluxe rules and 15mm figures with a ratio of 1:20. I play solo, so most of my battles are Corps size battles with about 1000 figures per side. This is as large as I go so I can still have room to maneuver. I use an 8 foot x 6 foot table.

Here are my typical Order of Battle for my French, British, Austrian, and Russian armies.

*****************************************************

French – OoB – Typical

CinC: Napoleon – Excellent +1
ADC: Marshal Berthier – Poor
ADC: Marshal Lannes – Excellent
ADC: General St. Germain – Average
Artillery: General Duroc – Average

Guard Brigade
GdB: General Friant – Average
- Old Guard Grenadiers – Guard, 40 figs
- Middle Guard Grenadiers – Elite, 40 fig
- Middle Guard Chasseurs – Elite, 40 figs
- Young Guard Tiralleurs – Veteran, 32 figs
- 12-pound Guard Foot Btry – Elite, 3 gun models, 12 figs

1st Infantry Division
GdD: Marshal Soult – Excellent
ADC: General Morand – Average

GdB: General D'Erlon – Average
- 7 Light – Veteran, 36 figs
- 34 Line – Line, 36 figs
- 45 Line – Line, 36 figs
- 57 Line – Line, 36 figs
- 61 Line – Line, 36 figs
GdB: General Verdier – Average
- 5 Bavarian Light – Veteran, 30 figs
- 9 Bavarian Line – Line, 36 figs
- 5 Wurttemberg – Line, 32 figs
- 2 Swiss – Veteran, 40 figs
- 6-pound Bavarian Foot Btry – Line, 3 gun models, 12 figs

2nd Infantry Division
GdD: Marshal Oudinot – Average
ADC: General Foy – Average

GdB: General Vandamme – Average
- 15 Light – Veteran, 36 figs
- 72 Line – Line, 36 figs
- 88 Line – Line, 36 figs
- 93 Line – Line, 36 figs
- 108 Line – Line, 36 figs
- 8-pound Foot Btry – Line,
4 gun models, 16 figs
GdB: General Poniatowski – Average
- 26 Light – Veteran, 36 figs
- 6 Polish Line – Line, 36 figs
- Vistula Legion – Line, 36 figs
- 2 Italian Line – 2nd Line, 36 figs

Cavalry Division
GdD: General Gouchy – Average
ADC: General Pajol – Average

GdB: General Nansouty – Average
- 7 Cuirassiers – Line, 32 figs
- 2 Dragoons – Line, 24 figs
- 1 Bavarian Dragoons – Line, 24 figs
- 4-pound Horse Btry – Veteran, 3 gun models, 12 figs
GdB: General Lasalle – Excellent
- 9 Hussars – Line, 30 figs
- 4 Chasseurs – Line, 24 figs
- Polish Lancers – Veteran, 24 figs

************************************************

British – OoB – Typical

CinC: Wellington – Excellent
ADC: Long – Average,
ADC: De Lancy – Staff

1st Infantry Division
GdD: Picton – Average
ADC: Halkett – Average

GdB: Cole – Average
- Coldstream Guards – Guard, 50 figs
- 79 Highlanders – Veteran, 40 figs
- 3 Kings German Legion – Veteran, 33 figs

GdB: Lambert – Average
- 23 Fusiliers – Elite, 40 figs
- 42 Highlanders – Veteran, 40 figs
- 12 Foot – Line, 30 figs
- 27 Foot – Line, 30 figs

GdB: Byng – Average
- 85 Light – Veteran, 30 figs
- 4 Foot – Line, 30 figs
- 94 Foot – Line, 30 figs

2nd Infantry Division
GdD: Hill – Excellent
ADC: Pack – Average

GdB: Hope – Average
- 51 Light – Veteran, 30 figs
- 38 Foot – Line, 30 figs
- 46 Foot – Line, 30 figs

GdB: Kempt – Average
- 95 Rifles – Elite, 24 figs
- 54 Foot – Line, 30 figs
- 63 Foot – Line, 30 figs
- 82 Foot – Line, 30 figs

Gdb: Beresford – Average
- 3 Casadores – Veteran, 30 figs
- 6 Oporto – Line, 40 figs
- 9 Viana – Line, 40 figs
- 12 Chaves – Line, 40 figs

Cavalry Division
GdD: Cotton – Excellent

GdB: Grant – Average
- Scots Grays Dragoons – Line, 32 figs
- 6 Dragoons – Line, 24 figs

GdB: Vivian – Average
- 10 Hussars – Line, 24 figs
- 16 Light Dragoons – Line, 24 figs

Artillery
GdB: Dickson – Average
- 9 lb Royal Foot Btry B – Line, 3 gun models, 12 figs
- 6 lb Royal Foot Btry C – Line, 3 gun models, 12 figs
- 9 lb Royal Horse Btry – Veteran, 3 gun models, 12 figs

Spanish Brigade
GdB: Cuesta – Very Poor
ADC: La Pena – Very Poor
- 1 Barcelona (light) – 2nd Line, 24 figs
- Rey – 2nd Line, 30 figs
- Granada – 2nd Line, 32 figs
- Zaragosa – 2nd Line, 30 figs

- Almanza Dragoons – 2nd Line, 24 figs

- 6 lb Foot Btry – Line (2nd Class Firers), 3 gun models, 12 figs

****************************************************

Austrian – Oob – Typical

CinC: Archduke Charles – Excellent
2iC: Liechtenstein – Average
ADC: Hiller – Average
ADC: Kienmeyer – Average

Grenadier Brigade
GdB: d'Aspre – Average
- 4 Grenadiers – Elite, 36 figs
- 10 Grenadiers – Elite, 36 figs
- 31 Grenadiers – Elite, 36 figs
- 34 Grenadiers – Elite, 36 figs

1st Infantry Division
GdD: Merveldt – Average
ADC: Mayer – Average

GdB: Nordmann – Average
- Tyrol Jagers – Veteran, 36 figs
- 3 I.R. – Line, 36 figs
- 15 I.R. – Line, 48 figs
- 24 I.R. – Line, 48 figs
- 5 Hussars (A) – Line, 18 figs
GdB: Weiss – Average
- 5 Grenz – Line, 42 figs
- 26 I.R. – Line, 36 figs
- 30 I.R. – Line, 36 figs
- 41 I.R. – Line, 48 figs
- Styrian – Conscript, 36 figs

2nd Infantry Division
GdD: Gyulai – Average
ADC: Paar – Average

GdB: Rohan – Average
- 13 Grenz – Line, 36 figs
- 50 I.R. – Line, 48 figs
- 58 I.R. – Line, 36 figs
- 63 I.R. – Line, 36 figs
- 5 Hussars (B) – Line, 18 figs
GdB: Jellacic – Poor
- 16 Grenz – Line, 36 figs
- 2 I.R. – Line, 48 figs
- 37 I.R. – Line, 48 figs
- 51 I.R. – Line, 48 figs
- Insurrectio – Conscript, 32 figs

Cavalry Division
GdD: Ferdinand – Average

GdB: Koller – Average
- 3 Cuirassiers – Veteran, 24 figs
- 1 Dragoons – Line, 30 figs
GdB: Clary – Average
- 4 Chevauxleger – Line, 24 figs
- 7 Hussars – Line, 24 figs

Artillery
GdB: Vincent – Average
- 6-pound Foot Btry #1 – Veteran, 3 gun models, 12 figs
- 6-pound Foot Btry #2 – Veteran, 4 gun models, 16 figs
- 6-pound Foot Btry #3 – Veteran, 4 gun models, 16 figs

************************************************

Russians – OoB – Typical

CinC: Kutuzov – Average
2IC: Bennigsen – Average
ADC: Olsufiev – Poor
ADC: Shevich – Average
Staff: Ivashev

Grenadier Brigade
GdB: Lavrov – Average
- Ismailov Guard Grenadiers – Guard, 40 figs
- Pavlov Grenadiers – Elite, 40 figs
- Kiev Grenadiers – Veteran, 32 figs
- Moscow Grenadiers – Veteran, 32 figs

1st Infantry Division
GdD: Doctorov – Excellent
ADC: Paskevich – Poor

GdB: Raevsky – Average
- 21 Jagers – Line, 32 figs
- Dnieper Musketeers – Line, 32 figs
- Sveaborg Musketeers – Line, 32 figs
- Tarnopol Musketeers – Line, 32 figs
- Reval Musketeers – Line, 32 figs
GdB: Tuchkov – Average
- 8 Jagers – Line, 32 figs
- Bielostock Musketeers – Line, 32 figs
- Mohilev Musketeers – Line, 32 figs
- Simbirsk Musketeers – Line, 32 figs

2nd Infantry Division
GdD: Tolstoy – Average
ADC: Patkul – Poor

GdB: Neverovsky – Average
- 19 Jagers – Line, 32 figs
- Alexopol Musketeers – Line, 32 figs
- Chernigov Musketeers – Line, 32 figs
- Kursk Musketeers – Line, 32 figs
GdB: Potemkin – Average
- 36 Jagers – Line, 32 figs
- Smolensk Musketeers – Line, 32 figs
- Vladimir Musketeers – Line, 32 figs
GdB: Morkov – Average
- Moscovy Militia) – Conscript (Enthusiastic), 32 figs
- Siberian Militia – Conscript (Enthusiastic), 32 figs
- Ural Militia – Conscript (Enthusiastic), 32 figs

Cavalry Division
GdD: Uvarov – Average

GdB: Duka – Average
- Starodub Cuirassiers – Line, 24 figs
- Kharkov Dragoons – Line, 30 figs
- Tver Dragoons – Line (superior mounts), 24 figs

GdB: Starov – Average
- Belarus Hussars – Line, 24 figs
- Soum Hussars – Line (superior mounts), 24 figs
- Zhirov Cossacks – Line, 24 figs

Artillery
GdB: Yermalov – Average
- 12-Pound Foot Btry – Line-2nd Class, 5 gun models, 20 figs
- 6-Pound Foot Btry – Line-2nd Class, 3 gun models, 12 figs
- 6-Pound Horse Btry – Line-2nd Class, 4 gun models, 16 figs
- 3-Pound Foot Btry – Line-2nd Class, 4 gun models, 16 figs

***************************************************

Thanks for looking at my armies OoB's

God bless,
John T.

1,000 – 1,200 a side

A cast of thousands…

* All of the above.

You can never "enough" figures in your armies, be 15mm or 28mm.

I over shot my 1st Western Army of Borodino for actual numbers

 Figures.                1=60
1255 infantry figures.  75,300
69 milita        ( uncounted in total 4,140)
240 cavalry             14,400
114 Cossack              6,840
 438 guns.               6,783( if full complement)

Actual total 82,400.     My total 96,483

Just one more division…

Min. is 500 per my life experience, to have sufficient for a game.

@John Tyson
You have your troop density just right for gaming.
Great photo!

Silly question IMO as Napoleonic equals megalomania.

I am based on a 1:45 ratio so 16 figures per battalion or 12 figures per cavalry regiment. I typically have a 1-2 Corp pr side battle. Typical Corp is 3 divisions each of 1-2 brigades. My typical Corp has 432 Infantry figures or 27 battalions. Now throw in artillery, commands, skirmishers, and cavalry.

As big as it needs to be.

The French allied army that invaded Russia was about 650 000.
So that's my answer.

" what should the minimum size of an Napoleonic army be"
Not the same as the poll question in the title.
And is that the number of figures for one side in a game, or a decent collection that would allow a variety of games to b played?

"The French allied army that invaded Russia was about 650 000."

.. and there was Russian army about 975 000 against them.

But minimal Napoleonic army (corps) in any scale must have at least 60 troopers plus command figures.

5'7" in scale?

Even in this scale, as we speak about armies for gaming.

Last month we were having a discussion about this. When we got down to brass tacks, one of us did a Russian corps, one a French corps and I did a Austrian corps. I did Klenau's corps from July 1809, as listed in Gill's "Thunder on the Danube" volume III. Turns out you need 454 total figures at 1:50, 332 infantry, 32 cavalry and 90 artillery/ 8 batteries!!! (includes guns, artillerymen and horse for the cavalry battery). Turns out I have enough Austrian figures to do two line corps and a reserve corp in this scale. Wonder how that happened.

Here's a picture of them lined up.

link

In your opinion, what should the minimum size of an Napoleonic army be, in terms of numbers of 15mm figures/models?

Well, my forces for LaSalle are looking to be ~50 per battalion, so at least 300 infantry per division.

But forces for Legacy of Glory only need 9-12 per battalion. I admit, 9-12 castings doesn't look much like a battalion to me.

Yes, 9-12 castings per battalion is too many for big battles.
Battalions usually must be in lines and battalion line in my 1:10.000 tables for 6mm castings must take 1 – 1,2 cm. So 9-12 castings will look not as line but as enourmosly deep column. With 15mm/1:100 castings battalion takes 2 – 2,5 cm front, but no other differences. Battalions are separately based subunits, showing the lineup for game units – brigades or divisions.

So if we want to use battalion stands on table, then there must be at least 3 figures per battalion, no less. This is absolute minimum.
There may be more figures in battalion and then we simply need a bigger table or smaller battle.

Bigger. Always bigger

at least 8 infantry, 2 cavalry and some guns.

so that would cont as minimalistic to be at least 160 but more likely to be closer to 300.

A couple folks mentioned Snappy Nappy.

We finished an 1814 'Campaign in a Day' with 20 players across 14 tables. If I had to guess about the number of miniatures, 20 players times an average of eight units each would be about 160 units, with most units of two stands each and averaging three or four figures per stand, means 320 stands * 3 figs (or 4) = 960 (or 1280) figures crisscrossing the tabletops. If you call it at 1000 figures, that's about 20 figures per player. We used 15mm in this campaign, but we've done others with 25mm figs.

The Snappy Nappy Campaigns in a Day are up on Peter's Blunders on the Danube Blog. Here's the link:

Blunders on the Danube Blog

The 1814 Campaign posts start May 8, 2019. A link up top on the right takes you to the other SnapCon Campaigns in a Day.