"Stuart Jalopy conversion " Topic

Bit of progress on the Jalopy conversion set. Now the basic structure done can design the stowage and figures, hoping to have it out end of the summer.

This is on the PSC Stuart kit, designing it to fit the S-Models kit as well.
L

Hi
Sorry those aren't true stuart jalopies these are.

Very nice Leon. Surprised this has not been done before as it was a common conversion.

Thank you Wackmole9.
Not sure how you can be so definitive about what was on the whole a field modification for the British and those you picture cant be Stuart Jalopies as the US Army didnt use the name Stuart.
To be more precise the 'proper' name is Stuart Recce or Stuart Kangaroo( when used as troop carriers) but they were known commonly as Jalopy or Jalopies in service. The name probably derives from NZ/Aussie slang.
L

Thank you Fred, there is a lovely one in 1/76 by Millicast but I wanted one in 1/72 to match everything else I've got.
L

Nice work Leon.

AFAIK once the engines were worn old M3s were so underpowered they were almost useless. Someone found if you took the turret off that reduced the weight enough they were usable again.

And that's pretty much what a jalopy was afaik.

They pretty much just took the turret off and welded on a machine gun or three for most conversions.

On others ( kangaroos maybe ? ) also removed some of the top plates so there's a bigger rectangular hole in the top.

Those pictures Wackmole9 posted aren't stuart jalopies.
Maybe he was joking.
I think that top one is an m1.

Hi

I was just joking. My Father was in the LA Maneuvers in 1940 and said many of the tanks were Model-t with a sign saying tank.

Leon, you bloody saint! You remembered I need some of these!

NOW can anyone tell me precisely how the Stuarts of 3RTR looked in/from June 44?

And another question: Leon, are you the originator of these .50 cals? Because my Pln of Scout Carriers will also need some and I'd like them all to look the same,

LA, Yes would like to know if you do the 50 cal. This is a great conversion!

Wackmole9, Ah, after thinking about doing this conversion kit for a couple of years and working on it for 6 months the last thing I wanted to hear was that someone thought it was incorrect. Its the sort of opinion that goes round the internet and gains 'authority' in the repeating. The over used 'lol' while naff does make it clear when its meant as a joke.

laretenue, yeah thats always a tricky matter and you just know when youve given up finding photo's and settle on a version to do somebody pumps out period photo's showing your 'wrong' lol From what I read conversions started in July but who/what/when is anyones guess!

Yes the .50/.30 cals are our designs. The kit will come with one of each, radio rig and a batch of stowage and 2/3 figs in a couple of different pose/dress versions.
L

Very nice !

No doubt removing the turret reduced weight, though I don't think those tanks were underpowered, using radial aero engines made them quite fast (and thirsty).

From what I've read about the employment of the turret less M5 in Normandy by 7th Armoured and other divisions the modification arose because …

- the purpose of the units using it (including the Royal Engineer ones) was reconnaissance, to see and not be seen

- the turret added height and therefore raised the silhouette

- all round visibility was better in the jalopy variant, even if that meant sacrificing armoured protection (same philosophy used with M10 TD)

- removing the 37mm gun + turret eliminated the possibility of formation commanders you were attached to trying to employ the vehicle as a 'tank' and by 1944 it really wasn't up to going toe to toe with a Panther or even Pzkw IV

EC

The name probably derives from NZ/Aussie slang.

Don't know about those areas, but "jalopy" was a common slang term in the U.S. in the '40s, meaning any old, run-down automobile.

Don't know about those areas, but "jalopy" was a common slang term in the U.S. in the '40s, meaning any old, run-down automobile.

Quite correct donlowry. Not sure about Australia but New Zealand slang for an "old, run-down automobile" is "dunga" or "old dunga".

(pronounced "dung-ah")

It's origin is British.

The first jalopy conversions were of old worn out decrepit and almost useless tanks. The engine in them was worn out making those tanks under powered.
If the turret was removed the power to weight ratio improved sufficiently they were then useful.

The British were aware that American slang for an old run down car was jalopy.
These were old run down American tanks.

Conversion of perfectly new tanks came much later.

Its the normal story of army and US slang going around and being adopted, impossible to know when/where it started. One story Ive read is that the first conversions were done by NZ/Oz troops and they either adopted the US slang from hearing their allies using the term or brought it with them as an adoption from home. No one really knows I suspect but its a nice term :) 'Jalopy' just sounds very appropiate when you see how much kit those things carry around.
L

First couple of figures done and the final version of the hardware done. Several more sets of figures and stowage to be sorted.
L

Any chance of you doing a 15mm version ?

Col Piron,
No chance I'm afraid its more of a personal indulgence than a commercially viable project in 20mm, even less viable in 15mm scale I'd have thought.
Seem to remember that Battlefront do one?
L

No chance I'm afraid its more of a personal indulgence than a commercially viable project in 20mm, even less viable in 15mm scale I'd have thought.

No probs .

Seem to remember that Battlefront do one ?

With the way their new plastic kits are , its harder to do it with them .

The USA version was the T8/T8E1 light recce tank.

Field Marshal Montgomery in a turret-less Stuart (M3) command tank displaying the badge of the 7th Armored Division (Dessert Rats), on the right side in North Africa.

Col Piron,
Well not familiar with the conversion kit from Battle front but would it work better with the PSC 15mm Stuart?
L

Well not familiar with the conversion kit from Battle front but would it work better with the PSC 15mm Stuart ?

Probably , but it looks like BF's is OOP , also it was only for the T8E1 .

Well sounds like you need to go and nag Peter Pig then :)
L

Couple of pics of a finished Jalopy crew figure.
The set is due for release at Crisis if not before.
L

Leon has now posted tempting pictures of the finished result over on the Adler site and the Wargamers' Forum …

link

and

link

I'm gagging to lay in a couple of Stuart conversions and all the new crew figures.

But only once Leon has completed the final promised US airborne chaps.

Very nice work there.

I have seen recently what can be done with PSC tanks, something I had dismissed as "snap together" stuff, for folk who could not be bothered to be modellers. Humble Pie.

I now know that, even without your upgrades and crews, they can be superb. But your figures do look like they have great facial features. All I ask is a nose, two orbital sockets, a zygomatic ridge, a chin and lower lip. Is that too much to ask in 1/72? Well, it can be.

Now how about US armour crew? You know you want to do them, in true 1/72, not the midgets of claimed 1/76. A couple of Free French, in forage caps and gaiters, would be too much to ask for obviously.

Oh and your 50 and 30 cals….wow.

Thanks,
Not much design work going on at the moment I'm afraid, production workload.What design time I have is being spent on the bread and butter 6mm stuff.
Theres a few more crew for the Stuarts etc in the pipeline and then a small range of British Tank crew. Not thought of Free French thanks for the idea.
Still two batches of US paras to finish before can think of anything else American.
L

Hi Leo

I found this picture at the web and remember this post.

6 July 1944

M3A3 Stuart V reconnaissance tank and a Sherman of the 26th Armoured Brigade, 6th Armoured Division in Corso Italia, Arezzo, Tuscany in Italy.

The Germans made a stand in front of Arezzo early in July 1944 and there was fierce fighting before the town was taken on 16 July by the 6th Armoured Division with the aid of the 2nd New Zealand Division.

(Photo source – © IWM NA 16939)
No. 2 Army Film & Photographic Unit
McConville, W. E. (Sergeant)

(Colour by Doug)

Thank you Guderian111,
Not seen that before, dont get many pics of them, the photographers were not that far up the line lol.
L

Not many kits for the Stuart V in 15mm/1/100 .

So, were the British still using desert camo in Italy? including the Brits/CW units in 5th Army?

Not sure if thats a 'colourised' picture or not but wouldnt suprise me if they still used 'sand' as the base for Sicily/Southern Italy but someone smarter than me will know the answer.
L

Well, Arezzo is in Umbria, well N of Rome – which as we all know was entered the day before the Normandy landings.

I'd be quite surprised to learn that Eighth Army was still wearing desert colours that late and so far north. But ready to be persuaded.

Excellent picture, though. I note that this Jalopy has no vertical protection added around the turret ring.

I think that vehicle is actually painted Olive Drab/SCC15 but is just filthy. As an aside it probably belongs to the Derbyshire Yeomanry who were 6th Armoured Division's Recce Regt. The cap badge of the chap holding the .50 cal is the wrong shape for any of the units in 26th Armoured Brigade.